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Post by todddoyka on Jun 12, 2019 12:34:06 GMT -7
i finally got around to sending my win m94(1972) to JES( to www.35caliber.com/ ) make a 30-30 into 35/30 caliber. he should have it by now(i mailed her on 6/4). i also got my ch4d 35/30 dies and some 30-30 starline brass. i did 5 cases to 35 cal and they did come out alright. tomorrow i'll do 100 cases(weather ch is calling for rain). i bought some 200gr fn gc(https://bullshop.weebly.com/-35-cali...t-bullets.html ), just to see if they're alright. (the next step is a 245gr fn gc(saeco)) before it goes off(again) to get it cerakoted, i'm going to try breakfree clp to scrub the rust off of my receiver(sintered steel). to scrub i'll be using clp, my old toothbrush, 0000 steel wool and a prayer or two or three . if it don't werk, then off to cerakote it. i'll probably be using williams 5d or fp 94. after (ahem)"shooting" my husky m46 with iron sights, i don't think its possible to shoot the 35/30 with irons. i shoot my 30-40 krag in a redfield 102k(peep sight), so i think i'm good. the next step is something that i don't to think about, a scope on a lever action( even marlins')!!!!!! when the m94 is done, i'll have a deer/bear rifle that i can be proud of. now all i hafta do is figured out cremation on the m94. then we'll be happy!!!
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Post by Bullshop on Jun 12, 2019 17:12:00 GMT -7
Todd your bullets are on there way. Your note asked for BHN-15 so we targeted an alloy blend that we thought should be close. Tested one day after casting gave a dial reading of 85 on the Cabin-tree tester. An 85 dial reading translates to BHN-15 so spot on for the targeted hardness. I do expect slightly more hardening over time but should still be ball park of the target BHN-15. The 35-30 should be a grand cast bullet cartridge capable of delivering its full potential even with fairly soft cast bullets if gas checks are used. I would guess it will peak at slightly under what the 35 Rem can deliver as I think the internal case capacity will also be slightly less than the 35 Rem. The 35-30 in my opinion is better suited to lever actions than the 35 Rem due to it being a rimed case over the 35 Rem being rimless. It is for that reason I never quite figured out why the 35 Rem was designed as a rimless case. Likely had something to do with the Rem model 8 auto loader being all the rage in the Bonnie & Clyde era. If you ever want to try really heavy bullets in the 35-30 we have three that run about 280gn. We have the old Lyman 280- RN-GC, The Wally Bator 280gn FN-GC, and our own about 270gn LFN-GC. I have tried all three designs in the 35 Rem but in order to stay within max OACL the bullet must be deeply seated so does intrude on powder space. They did shoot good though so shows the twist was adequate for the bullet length. I even tried the RN 280gn Lyman in an old Rem model 8. I don't remember too much about it as it was maybe 20+ years ago but I certainly do remember that ejection of brass was brisk!!! God looks out for fools and little children eh !
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Post by missionary on Jun 13, 2019 6:09:27 GMT -7
Good morning A caliber 35 will serve you well. That old 30 WF brass has been one of the greats for necking up and down. About the only one better I can think about would be the old 30 Government (30-40). Those long necks are a lead shooters big friend.
Plain old automatic transmission fluid does very well penetrating rust. Add some acetone and possibly it is the best penetrator around.
JES does a good job We have numerous lever gun and bolts rifle conversions. All are accurate and the groove size well thought out. Cero coat is something I have thought about numerous times. May have to look into it one day. Sure would make an ugly ducklin look like a new bird
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Post by todddoyka on Jun 13, 2019 10:26:57 GMT -7
Todd your bullets are on there way. Your note asked for BHN-15 so we targeted an alloy blend that we thought should be close. Tested one day after casting gave a dial reading of 85 on the Cabin-tree tester. An 85 dial reading translates to BHN-15 so spot on for the targeted hardness. I do expect slightly more hardening over time but should still be ball park of the target BHN-15. The 35-30 should be a grand cast bullet cartridge capable of delivering its full potential even with fairly soft cast bullets if gas checks are used. I would guess it will peak at slightly under what the 35 Rem can deliver as I think the internal case capacity will also be slightly less than the 35 Rem. The 35-30 in my opinion is better suited to lever actions than the 35 Rem due to it being a rimed case over the 35 Rem being rimless. It is for that reason I never quite figured out why the 35 Rem was designed as a rimless case. Likely had something to do with the Rem model 8 auto loader being all the rage in the Bonnie & Clyde era. If you ever want to try really heavy bullets in the 35-30 we have three that run about 280gn. We have the old Lyman 280- RN-GC, The Wally Bator 280gn FN-GC, and our own about 270gn LFN-GC. I have tried all three designs in the 35 Rem but in order to stay within max OACL the bullet must be deeply seated so does intrude on powder space. They did shoot good though so shows the twist was adequate for the bullet length. I even tried the RN 280gn Lyman in an old Rem model 8. I don't remember too much about it as it was maybe 20+ years ago but I certainly do remember that ejection of brass was brisk!!! God looks out for fools and little children eh ! i just wanted to try 15bhn+/-. the 12bhn(30-40 krag & 444) is just awesome. when i was going for top bullet speed, i would end up throwing away the off shoulder or the off ribs because it was bloodshot and tattered. i shot a doe that was looking forward to me. the shot was about 75 yards+/- away(before the laser range finder thingy) and i shot her high. she dropped at the shot, so i carefully made my way up to her. when i was about 20 yards from her, she jumped up on her front legs( i could tell that she was spine shot) and started to go away from me. i shot her in neck, close to the head and she died. i gutted her and i could see the bullet wound. well, i'll just say that there weren't any backstraps that i could get. and i luv backstraps. the bullet went in the front left of chest, the clavicle and the backstraps. it did clip the spine and on the way out (over the back legs), it left a trail of destruction(bloodshot and tattered backstraps). the rifle i was using was a savage 110 in 270 and 150gr nosler bt and i can't remember the powder or charge, but she was hot, not warm, but hot. yes, i was young and dumb once too. it was about 20 years or so till i got the courage to use nosler bt again. and again, i was wrong to use them. i believe that 2700fps is all you push them to. if you push them to 2800+fps, its like grenade went off. 2700-fps it does like it should, expand to 1 - 1.5" . i've done it in the 6.5 creedmoor and 270 win. i luv the 12bhn+/-. it smacks into the deer's chest, makes a bloody mess of the lungs and exits. you can "eat up to hole." 15bhn+/- is just something i want to try. the 270- 280gr is something i want to try!!! i can't remember if the twist is 1 in 14" or 1 in 15", JES told me what uses and i went with that. dang it!!! i don't even have the 35/30 and i'm dreaming of 270-280gr already!!!! God surely does look out for fools and children!! wait a minute, i ain't no kid!!!
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Post by todddoyka on Jun 13, 2019 10:54:00 GMT -7
Good morning A caliber 35 will serve you well. That old 30 WF brass has been one of the greats for necking up and down. About the only one better I can think about would be the old 30 Government (30-40). Those long necks are a lead shooters big friend. Plain old automatic transmission fluid does very well penetrating rust. Add some acetone and possibly it is the best penetrator around. JES does a good job We have numerous lever gun and bolts rifle conversions. All are accurate and the groove size well thought out. Cero coat is something I have thought about numerous times. May have to look into it one day. Sure would make an ugly ducklin look like a new bird i have thought about transmission fluid and acetone many times, but i use kroil as my last resort. i use pb blaster alot(rusty bolts and such). i used kroil to take out my rear sight on an 1898 spr armory. i'd put a drop or two on the screws and the next day i tried the screws, nope then i'd put a drop or two kroil and do it the next day. i did this 3 or 4 days till the screws fell out. i and my son have killed many deer with the 30-40 krag. 165gr ranch dog and some h4198 that goes 1900fps has killed many of deer. my own bubba-upped rifle has a 21 7/8"+/- barrel on it and a redfield 102k peep sight that i put on. cerakote sure looks pretty, but i still have a trick or two to make the rifle unrusty!!! if these don't werk, then its off to cerakote it. www.cerakote.com/resource/locator/
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Post by missionary on Jun 13, 2019 16:16:39 GMT -7
So far I have never held a Krag I did not like. They just appeal to me. Whether original or sporterized they are fine rifles / carbines. We have one Krag that was sporterized that we have talked about sending out to JES and become a 35-40. For about 3 inches after the chamber the bore is badly pitted. A .316 or .317 slug shoots OK but that is as fat as we can chamber. But opened to caliber 35 would make it a far better shooting rifle.
Thank you for that Ceracoat link. There is a place just 90 minutes away from our "up north" area that was listed.
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Post by Bullshop on Jun 13, 2019 17:37:25 GMT -7
Oh Oh Mike now you got my juices flowing. I knew a fella in Alaska that re-barreled a Krag rifle to 405 Win. Since they use the same case head there is no bolt face work required. The problem he was having and I don't think he ever solved was that factory 405 ammo was just a wee tiny bit too long or maybe too fat at the bullet end to cycle from the magazine. However I think a 40 caliber cartridge that should function from the mag is the 40 Maynard. Basically the 40 Maynard is a 405 Win short, again same case head just shorter. The 40 Maynard is pretty much just the 30-40 case blown out to a straight tapered 40 caliber. This is something I have been wanting to try but it is one of many irons in the fire without current funding. If you hunt a bit Krag rifles can still be found at very attractive prices. As you I have not a bad word for anything Krag weather 30-40 or other stock or modified. I very much lust after the Swedish and Danish Krag rifles. I currently have three Krags , one full length rifle in 30-40 modified with target sights and modified target stock for high power shooting, another early depression conversion to single shot currently being re-barreled to 25-20 wcf, and my favorite another depression era conversion to single shot in 22 hornet. The hornet is a classic design complete with set triggers. That gun kind of defines my personality in so many ways. It is wonderfully accurate and a pleasure to shoot as well as to simply behold. It certainly provides me pride of ownership even when no one else seems to appreciate it. Kids today, "" if it aint black put it back"" !!! Beautiful wood and highly polished deeply blued steel is my weakness !
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Post by todddoyka on Jun 13, 2019 19:22:45 GMT -7
i would hate to take a 30-40 to a 35-40. it just ain't right. now if you have a "burned out" rifle, like you have, then by all means, make it a 35-40. i wonder if i could take a 303 british enfield and make a 35-40 krag? i know that they already have a 35-303 british......hmmmmmmm....i really gotta quit doing that!!!
oh, and by the way, the boolits showed up. they are beautiful.
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Post by Bullshop on Jun 13, 2019 20:21:55 GMT -7
I know for a fact that the British Enfield can be converted to 45-90. The magazine has to be converted to single stack but has plenty of length for the 45-90 even with 500gn bullets. Strength wise I put the Enfield, Krag, 1895 Marlin and 1886 Winchester in about the same max pressure range. These would fall into the group two pressure range for the three ranges usually given for the 45-70 cartridge. Not quite up there with the Ruger #1 & #3, the Win high wall and variants, and Siamese Mauser but still able to rattle a shooters filling loose with max type loads. I just never cease to be impressed by the smooth working bolt of the Krag, love it. I remember reading an old magazine article about ww-1 & 2 bolt rifles that said the USA had the best target rifle, the Germans had the best hunting rifle, and the Britt's had the best battle rifle. This of course before the Garand. The Britt Enfield held more rounds than the others and I believe because of the cock on closing was faster to operate. I still have in my possession a BSA 1917 Enfield in original 303 Britt that my Dad bought for me when I was 9 YO. There were two versions offered from Klines mail order house the low grade stock rifle at $9.00 and the deluxe sporterized with scope base at $15.00 delivered to your door. This was before the gun control act when they would ship directly to the buyer. I was a terror on woodchucks that summer with that Enfield and surplus ammo.
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Post by missionary on Jun 14, 2019 15:47:33 GMT -7
Now I had never considered a Krag in caliber 40 !! That is something I will need to mull over. And that you mention it a rebarrel would be all done at home while champing popcorn.
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Post by Bullshop on Jun 14, 2019 16:41:29 GMT -7
When I first started sending rifles to Jess for re-bore he told me (I think) that the minimum safe barrel wall thickness was .1" or .2" over groove diameter for OD at the muzzle. It seems like at some point I measured a Krag barrel and found that a rifle barrel cut back to carbine length would make the minimum diameter for a re-bore to 40 caliber with .410" groove. For a .410" groove diameter the minimum out side muzzle diameter would be .410" + .2" = .610" OD at the muzzle . A few .001" over wouldn't hurt anything. Its also possible that I just dreamed the whole thing and there is no fact at all in that statement. Memory is a casualty of age and mine is badly wounded. Wont be hard to find out for sure though. If you do build one lets just make sure I don't have to go to Peru to shoot it !
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Post by missionary on Jun 14, 2019 18:40:25 GMT -7
Sadly down here is not the place to bring firearms. The rifle would first have to sit out at the airport while doing paperwork to import it. That entails the guberment deciding if the caliber is acceptable, the action type and if the owner is OK to have another firearm. If the caliber is not on the imported ammo list it is automatic no import.
I think you are correct on the .2 minimal wall thickness. When I called Jes years ago on boring a Marlin 336 to .412 to make a 414 Supermag Jes stated that figure. Our 336 had right at or close to that diameter. If I do decide on the caliber .40 you would be all invited to come by and fire it. I think it would be neat to have a Krag 40 something !
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Post by Bullshop on Jun 14, 2019 19:48:05 GMT -7
"" I think it would be neat to have a Krag 40 something !""
Or two !!!
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Post by missionary on Jun 15, 2019 5:18:58 GMT -7
I would be inclined to be happy with one caliber .40 and maybe a caliber .35 or a .375. But we only have the one with a crummy bore. The other sporters have good bores and some are in original military configuration. But I have a year to ponder which caliber for sure... Have you ever paper patched a 30 Government and fired 3F in it ?? That would be another solution I have pondered. But a caliber .40 does sound like a dandy.
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Post by Bullshop on Jun 15, 2019 7:37:02 GMT -7
"""Have you ever paper patched a 30 Government and fired 3F in it ??""" No never tried that I did once have a Siamese Mauser that had been re-barreled and chambered to 375 Krag Ackley. That rifle with its max loads came very close to the published load performance of the 375 H&H. The 375 H&H traditionally has not been loaded to the same high pressures as other newer magnum cartridges. Since its introduction in 1912 even though it uses a large case it was loaded to moderate pressures as were many other large volume cases intended for hunting dangerous game on the dark continent. I am sure my loads in the 375 Krag Ackley were loaded to higher pressures than what is shown for the H&H cartridge. When both are loaded to the same pressure as always the bigger case shows the greater potential. Still though the Siamese Mauser being a 60,000 psi launch platform was a lot of gun when chambered for the 375 Krag Ackley. That experience was what got me interested in working with 375 caliber cartridges based on the 30-06 case. There have been three 375's on the 06 case that I have gained experience with, the 375 Whelen, 375 Whelen improved, and the 375 Hawk Scoville. Of these and since I shoot only heavy for caliber cast bullets in them I found not more than slight ballistic gain from the improved case designs. For this reason I settled on the standard original Whelen design because it did at least in the guns I tried them in prove to be more reliable in feeding than any design with an abrupt sharp shoulder. My current load for hunting elk, moose, caribou size game is shooting our 375gn LFN-GC bullet at between 2300 and 2400 fps and has proven tremendously powerful on caribou the only game I have actually taken with it to date.
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Post by missionary on Jun 15, 2019 10:13:27 GMT -7
That was just a curious question.. You wrote that sometimes a caliber 40 Krag shows up so I went to the G broker place and there is a 444 Marlin Krag for sale. Set up as a single shot only though. Probably feed issues as you mentioned. Got me wondering how the 405 JES would feed in a Krag. When we get north again I will give that a try as I am already set up to load that 405 JES in our Marlin 336. If nothing less those 405 JES dies would be helpful getting a caliber .40 Krag shooting. If not we have numerous caliber .40 dies that would be useful. 414 Supermag may be the ticket. Well have to work on the 250 Kaw as it chose to break the rear shock unit Thursday up in the mountain villages.
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Post by todddoyka on Jun 15, 2019 11:41:30 GMT -7
no!!! no todd, bad!!! no!!! i'll get the wadded up paper!!!! no!!! bad!!!!! this is krag's business. no!!! todd bad!!!!! its a good thing that i already spent all my money!!! all you have to do is say the "krag" and my ears perk up. i've known of the 35 krag but 40 krag!!! my are perked and my mouth is watering!!! its a good thing that i don't have another krag, i don't think i could take it. my little brain has enough already. hmmmmmm......a 40 krag..........hmmmmmmmm............
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Post by todddoyka on Jun 23, 2019 21:17:41 GMT -7
i got the 35/30 on saturday. i can't wait to shoot it!!!
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Post by Bullshop on Jun 24, 2019 7:57:54 GMT -7
I wana shoot it too !!!
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Post by todddoyka on Jun 24, 2019 13:29:58 GMT -7
today i cleaned the barrel out. it only took me 45 minutes or so. the first 1/2 hour i was soaking it in gunslick's foaming bore cleaner. the next 15 minutes or so was a bore brush, 35 caliber patches, sweet's and some elbow juice to make it clean. i found only one steel/lead shaving and it was miniscule. the first series of patches came out grey. the second series(sweets) came out clean. i oiled up the inside of the barrel and i did oil up the outside. i'll say this, JES does good work!!! i was surprised that the patches didn't find shavings i'd expect. i was more surprised on barrel cleaness. i was expecting it to be dirty, but 4 or 5 patches and it comes out clean. i did the 2nd set because i couldn't believe that the barrel was clean!!!! i did a dry run(patches) on the barrel's rifling and i found it smooth as a baby's bottom. so three cheers for JES!!!!!
tomorrow, i'll use transmission fluid(i don't have acetone? i'll have to look.) and my old toothbrush to attack the rust(sinter steel). if that don't werk, then i'll have to buy breakfree clp and some fine copper wool 0000. if that don't werk, then its off to cerakote.
JES gave me load that says 200gr cast and rel10, but i don't have any rel10. i have trail boss(its a joy to shoot on anything), 2400, rel 7, h4198(JES did imr on j-words) and h322(i have a pound of it, unopened for about 5 years). i'll have to check but i got a 1/2lb of varget. i bought it for my 30-40 krag but it doesn't like varget. i have found an article that goes 15.4 - 20.0gr of 2400 with a 200gr cast boolit that goes 1300-1800fps. i'm a little leery of going over 16.0gr of 2400, but i ask, do you take 20.0gr of 2400? or was it just a show(lie)?
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Post by Bullshop on Jun 24, 2019 14:12:53 GMT -7
On the Hodgdons powder burn rate chard Reloader # 10 is # 78 and IMR-3031 is # 80 so the two are close in burn rate. One the faster side H 4198 is # 74 Any safe loads you were given for Reloader #10 I would feel safe substituting with IMR-3031. H-322 is # 76 so just slightly faster burning that the Reloader #10 but still in the general burn rate range. I would drop 1 gn from starting loads substituting H-322 for Reloader 10 then work up if applicable.
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Post by todddoyka on Jun 25, 2019 21:29:16 GMT -7
thanks!!!!
i did manage to scrub some of the rust off. i used transmission fluid and mineral spirits(i don't have acetone, so i'll put it on my list). i don't think i'll have it cerakoted. it will take me a couple of days to remove all the the rust.
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Post by todddoyka on Jun 28, 2019 13:27:18 GMT -7
i finished the rifle. i don't think it will need cerakote.
i used atf mixed with mineral spirits(1:1) and a piece of 0000 steel wool. it isn't too bad but i know where to look. then i ballistol her up. its too hot out to shoot her in. so the 93 mauser is on my clean up list.
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Post by Bullshop on Jul 1, 2019 9:04:02 GMT -7
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Post by todddoyka on Jul 1, 2019 12:00:26 GMT -7
i'm glad that i spent all of money!!!! or i'd have one..........
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Post by todddoyka on Jul 9, 2019 7:54:02 GMT -7
yesterday i fired the 200gr fn gc and 16.0 - 20.0gr of 2400/dacron in my 35/30. it werked fine but i forgot the chrony!!!!! i should've put up a target(i fired at a 3"x3"x1" piece of steel painted fluorescent orange ) but i was more interested in the loads and my face !!! the 16.0, 16.5, and the 17.0 of 2400 had soot on their cases, while the 17.5 thru 20.0gr did not. (the cases are 30-30 starline necked up to 35/30.) i also think that i can go up 2 - 3gr of 2400, but stupid "forgot" his chrony and now i don't know if the loads achieves 1700-1800fps. dang stupid, i should fire him. shooting wise, i have a hard time on open sights, esp at 100 yards. a williams peep sight is my next move. but anyway i'll say that i did 50-60% on the orange painted steel. the rifle wasn't on a rest, it was on a tripod. and i was using my ol' kentucky windage!!! i had to raise the rifle up to put her on the target, she was 5 or 6" low and she was on the left/right. i was shooting her in a sleeveless t shirt and i could feel no recoil, or at least just a little itty bit of recoil. i shoot 5 shot strings and i couldn't feel the barrel heating up. 5 minutes after the string, i would shoot again. i should have stupid check for powder residue in the barrel after each string, but i checked it afterwards, she was clean. i should've rebored her years ago, i've forgotten how much fun the m94 is.
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Post by Bullshop on Jul 9, 2019 14:25:10 GMT -7
Sounds like its going to shoot good though! I once read that the most fallible component to any shooting system is the nut that holds the trigger. HMMM!!
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Post by missionary on Jul 9, 2019 18:02:43 GMT -7
Well least ya did not forget the ammo. I did that at least once.
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Post by Bullshop on Jul 9, 2019 18:39:10 GMT -7
I don't wanna talk about it. It wasn't my fault. I was under pressure! I aint sayin no more.
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Post by missionary on Jul 10, 2019 8:28:27 GMT -7
I was in a hurry !!
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