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Post by Junior on Nov 11, 2023 12:02:22 GMT -7
I had to go to fairbanks the other day to drop off a trailer I had sold. The roads are super crappy out, so the wife had no interest in tagging along for the 100 mile ride at 35-40 mph. I got done with dropping off the trailer, and really had nothing else to do in town, and as unsupervised men do, I had to go to the toy store.
At my favorite stop, I was browsing and came across a rifle I had seen in there a few times before, which was this nicely sporterized type 99 Japanese Arisaka rifle. The rifle had been cut down to 19 inches, nicely blued, and fit with a left handed full length stock. I like weird, oddball things, and this one jsut kind of called to me. I had already walked away from it a couple times since I don't need it, just a cool gun I wanted, but I decided to make him a offer of $350 and he accepted it.
The rifle is built on a 4 digit series 3 action from the Nagoya arsenal, so its a fairly early type 99. The mum is not fully ground off as common with most surplus rifles, just crossed out. it still has the military barrel chambered for 7.7x58 jap.
It's a very neat little rifle. Its set up with a williams reciever sight, and weights in at 6.6lb with the 19" barrel. The stock fits me very well. I haven't seen many sporterized Arisaka rifles, and this is by far the nicest I've ever seen. I was able to get my hands on a few boxes of factory ammo, and while I havent put it on a bench yet, I was able toshoot 2" groups offhand at 60 yards, so it shows promise.
I've got dies on the way. Im really looking forward to starting to play with this rifle.
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Post by Junior on Nov 11, 2023 12:15:52 GMT -7
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Post by Junior on Nov 11, 2023 12:17:10 GMT -7
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Post by Junior on Nov 11, 2023 12:19:10 GMT -7
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Post by Bullshop on Nov 11, 2023 16:05:21 GMT -7
Very nice ! Everyone should have at least one iron sighted rifle. I remember reading in Parker Ackley's books that the Arisaka action withstood the greatest chamber pressures of all the bolt actions. He set out to test all the milsurp bolt actions to total destruction and the Arisaka proved to be the toughest of all. I cant remember for sure but think that maybe they never were able to destroy the action just the barrel. The actions were still serviceable after blowing the barrels off.
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Post by Junior on Nov 11, 2023 17:21:44 GMT -7
Up until about 2 years ago, all of my rifles were iron sighted, but now I’ve got about an even mix of scoped and irons.
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Post by Bullshop on Nov 11, 2023 17:42:54 GMT -7
I said ""every man needs one "" Beyond the need is OK too. My feelings are " more guns more better ""
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Post by Junior on Nov 12, 2023 18:14:24 GMT -7
I got a chance this afternoon to go do a little walking around and took the jap with me. Temps are down at about 4 degrees so once the gun was good and cold I set up a target at 100 yards and proceeded to fire off 5 rounds at it from unsupported prone, laying in the snow. I think this rifle is gonna shoot!
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Post by Bullshop on Nov 12, 2023 20:21:17 GMT -7
Wikipedia says the 7.7x58 Arisaka uses a .312" diameter bullet. That would be the diameter of jacketed bullets for it so I would try cast bullets at about .314" diameter. I know a guy that can get you some if you want.
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Post by Junior on Nov 12, 2023 20:54:44 GMT -7
I would definitely be interested to try some cast in it. I want to try to slug it here soon. I have a few of those pure lead 38 wad cutters left that you sent me, but nothing to drive it through the barrel.
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Post by missionary on Nov 13, 2023 5:06:53 GMT -7
That is a fine looking short rifle. And that caliber should take care of any critter. All your old 30-06 brass (if not real bad) can become 7.7 by annealing and passing through those dies. Then a little trim and you are ready to have fun.
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Post by Junior on Nov 13, 2023 11:33:22 GMT -7
Wikipedia says the 7.7x58 Arisaka uses a .312" diameter bullet. That would be the diameter of jacketed bullets for it so I would try cast bullets at about .314" diameter. I know a guy that can get you some if you want. I was reading through Ken Waters article in pet loads last night. He mentioned that the bores on these rifles varied greatly and he’s seen them all the way up to .318”. I’m guessing this one is not ovsrsized since it seems to shoot jacketed very well.
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Post by Bullshop on Nov 13, 2023 12:47:27 GMT -7
The most uniform military rifles I have ever checked were the K-31 Swiss. I checked the bores of several we had on hand when we sold them from the Alaska shop. Every rifle I checked was exactly .308" rifling groove. At the same time we were also selling the model 91 Russian Nagant rifles and they showed an extreme variation of .010" from largest to smallest groove diameters.
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Post by missionary on Nov 13, 2023 12:56:38 GMT -7
Krags were of various diameters also. We have enough to run from .309 - .315. And then there are some model 1892 Winchesters in 44 WCF that are real individuals !
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Post by todddoyka on Nov 14, 2023 10:53:55 GMT -7
i think it was Harry Pope that got the barrels on a Krag straighten out to .308". mine is .3085" and .308". i've have 7.65x53 barrels that are suppose to .311". they are .3115"(mine), .313"(oldest son) and .3155" (youngest son). i have an sporterized early Type 99 in 30-06. i cleaned it and i put in safe and i haven't shot it yet, even tho its going 2 or 3 years now. it needed a front sight so i took it to my gunsmith and he had one. i told him to go over it and what size is it? i know that after WW2, South Koreans would take any gun and put it in their army. i was thinking that it would be a rechambered 311-06, but i was surprised at .3085" barrel and the chamber cast was right on.
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Post by Junior on Nov 14, 2023 15:14:38 GMT -7
i think it was Harry Pope that got the barrels on a Krag straighten out to .308". mine is .3085" and .308". i've have 7.65x53 barrels that are suppose to .311". they are .3115"(mine), .313"(oldest son) and .3155" (youngest son). i have an sporterized early Type 99 in 30-06. i cleaned it and i put in safe and i haven't shot it yet, even tho its going 2 or 3 years now. it needed a front sight so i took it to my gunsmith and he had one. i told him to go over it and what size is it? i know that after WW2, South Koreans would take any gun and put it in their army. i was thinking that it would be a rechambered 311-06, but i was surprised at .3085" barrel and the chamber cast was right on. That is quite interesting. Some 133,000 of the jap rifles were converted to 30/06 for the Koreans during the Korean War. I had assumed that they just rechambered them and accuracy was good enough for war, but now you’ve got me wondering. Does it have holes drilled for the military sights on the barrel?
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Post by todddoyka on Nov 14, 2023 18:08:10 GMT -7
yes, but someone else took the rear sight off and he put a peep sight.
i "guess" that that we rechambered some and we re-barrel some.
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Post by Junior on Nov 19, 2023 17:14:37 GMT -7
This is probably a terrible idea, but I am very tempted to send this rifle off to JES and have it turned into a 35 whelan.
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Post by Bullshop on Nov 19, 2023 18:34:39 GMT -7
My first 35 Whelen looked just like that a short barreled full stock carbine. It had plenty of history before and after me. It went to an outfitter in Wyoming after me and was used as a loaner for guided elk hunts. It was stolen from me but eventually I located it in Wyoming by word of mouth. Since the 35 Whelen was not yet a factory cartridge at that time word got around about that one and it finally got back to me. I never did try to get it back, just let him keep it. I know who stole it and it wasn't him so I just let it go not wanting to punish the wrong guy. My next one was the 35 Whelen Ackley and you know about that one. 250 grain bullets at 2600 fps and 180 grain bullets at just over 3000 fps covers a lot of bases. That 35 Whelen Ackley took a lot of game and made some spectacular shots at both long range and fast and close shots.
The biggest elk I ever took was with that rifle. He had 60" tall main beams and for the shot with a 100 yard zero I held the cross wire in the scope level with the top of his antlers and since he was walking slowly I put the vertical wire right on the tip of his nose. The 250 grain Hornady bullet took him right in the middle right at the diaphragm. He was not dead when I got to him and did require a second shot but the first shot did anchor him so he didn't go anywhere.
Something I found interesting was that both shots pushed the bullet to the far side and stopped just under the hide. I guessed the first shot at 400 yards and the second at about 15. The second bullet was as flat as a nickel and the first only expanded the lead tip and a wee bit of jacket of the Hornady 250 grain round nose bullets. My load was starting them out right at 2600 fps + or - a couple FPS. That is the elk your Mom posted a picture of recently. in another thread.
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Post by todddoyka on Nov 20, 2023 9:57:52 GMT -7
This is probably a terrible idea, but I am very tempted to send this rifle off to JES and have it turned into a 35 whelan. i have a horrible itch for the 400 Petrov Whelen for the Type 99. but it will mostly scratch the itch with the 405 JES (1898 Spr Armory) that i want built.
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Post by Junior on Nov 20, 2023 15:11:16 GMT -7
I have a weak spot for 35 calibers. One of my first rifles, and they first one I put a lot of rounds through was a Marlin 336 in 35 Remington. I have a fondness for the caliber.
Honestly 358 Winchester would be a better fit to this rifle I think, but I would have to set the barrel back. I could do 9.3x57 though.
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Post by todddoyka on Nov 21, 2023 11:41:14 GMT -7
i luv that 9.3x57!!! i have a 1936 or '37 Husqvarna m46 and i luv it. my all-time favorite is the Winchester m94. it was my first rifle, my first buck and my first doe. it was chambered in 30-30, but 5 or 6 years ago, i sent to JES Reboring and he a 35/30-30. since my eyesight ain't good, i put on a Willams FP aperture sight. it has killed 2 doe and one buck. it would be 3 doe, but i "couldn't see" the doe when i using open sights. the doe was about 35-40 yards, standing broadside and when i sighted the doe in, all i could see is brown blob. i decided that i needed glasses.
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Post by grasshopper on Nov 23, 2023 9:42:17 GMT -7
That’s a really sweet looking 99 JR! I really like the way they did the stock! It reminds me a lot of a rifle I got from your pop that was great caribou medicine. It was a smaller action krag in 6.5x55 with a full length mannlicher type stock.
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Post by grasshopper on Nov 24, 2023 16:05:15 GMT -7
Man Todd! Every time I me I look at your Husqvarna I seem to like it more and more! It’s getting worse and worse all the time and I hate to say it but I do believe I have a fever for one! I know a while back the bulletmaster himself posted another Husky on the forum and it was another great looking rifle. The folks here that know will hopefully be kind enough to help out a Husky rookie and let me know if they are fairly common rifles to find at shows or in a gun shop with a good selection of used sporting rifles. I don’t believe I have really encountered any that I can remember here in the lower 48 but I do remember seeing quite a few in the state JR resides. If I recall correctly most were in 9.3, I know they made them in other calibers but I’ve never handled any of them in the flesh. Are there any special variations to look for or avoid? I also remember that both Dick and Ethel Leedy used Husky’s exclusively for their choice of hunting rifle. That’s a strong endorsement because they had hunted all over the world to include Africa and could of picked any rifle they wanted. As an afterthought I remember my lovely wife got me Roger Rules excellent book “A riflemans rifle” for Xmas one year in AK and I really wanted a pre 64 model 70! After talking with Dick he told me to drop by his house after work he had a “couple” of rifles I might be interested in. So I went to his house and there in front of his chair there were either 6 or 8 pre 64 model 70s lined up on his floor. After getting my breath back he let me examine each one for as long as I wanted. All of the 70s were the standard and all were in either 06 or 270. He said I could have any rifle there for $600 and if I bought one of each I could have them for $500 each. I didn’t have the cash at the time being on SSG pay at the time and just after having our first son. He knew I had a model 83 Freedom Arms in 454 and was looking for one. I thought great! I was thinking of trading or selling the 83 because of a customer service issue with Freedom Arms but that’s another story for another time. He kept checking it over and finally said “I would trade you for any too but it’s only a 6” barrel and not a 7 1/2. I preferred the 6 but my hopes were dashed. That was a fantastic price, I’m not sure what $500 or $600 equates to in today’s money and I don’t know the value of those rifles today but I’m sure they went up a bunch. I’m not sure if I just got busy or they moved not long after that but I always regretted getting that deal done but I do have the model 83 all thanks to the billet master himself.
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Post by Bullshop on Nov 24, 2023 18:16:28 GMT -7
Most of the Husky rifles I have seen chambered in 9.5x57 have been on the small ring action. I have seen one on the large ring chambered in 9.3x62. Many of the 9.3mm rifles I have looked at were very well worn including the barrel. Look them over good before you buy. I am very fortunate to have two Husqvarna based rifles. One is a factory small ring 9.3x57 just like Todds and the other is a pre ww1 action now barreled to 375 Whelen. The 375 Whelen is a bone crusher loaded with a 375 grain bullet of my design. I know I have told the story before but will mention it again about the caribou bull I shot with it. It was nearly dark and I had receiver peep sights and couldn't see the sights well. A nice antlered bull stopped on a small frozen pond and I could see his silhouette perfectly with the white background. I slowly swung the big gold bead toward him from his front and when the bead disappeared on his silhouette right about at the shoulder I fired. The flash blinded me for a second and then all was quiet. When approaching the spot where I last saw him I found two fresh shed antlers. Great I thought now I have four to sell at about $10.00 per pound. Just a couple steps farther along was the bull I had shot but he was antlerless. That twisted my mind for a second questioning myself on weather I shot a cow or a bull but I know I was looking at antlers when I show.
Looking over the bull I could see that he was freshly shed. I could also see the fist size hole out the off side shoulder. That 375 grain wide flat nose bullet starting out a bit over 2300 fps had centered both shoulders and made a terrible mess of them. On closer inspection I could see that the impact of that big bullet sent such a tremor through his body that it whipped of both antlers to where I found them a couple steps behind him. That there is good medicine for big critters. At one time I had several rifles chambered for the 375 Whelen the improved Whelen and the 375 Scoville which is sort of a 375 Brown Whelen. These were on 03-a3 Springfields, Mausers both German and Husky, and one on a pre 64 model 70 Winchester. Of all the Husky fed the most dependably so that is the one I still have.
I hate to say this but the Winchester was the worst of all. In fairness though I will say that it was the only one chambered for the Scoville which has a very sharp shoulder. Of all the various versions of the 375 Whelen I had available for testing I chose the original standard version because no matter what action it was also the most dependable for feeding from the mag. Any gained ballistic performance with the improved versions was so slight at least with my bullet that there was little to gain so I decided living where I did at the time that it would be wise to gain dependability over any slight increase in power.
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Post by todddoyka on Nov 25, 2023 20:24:07 GMT -7
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Post by grasshopper on Nov 25, 2023 21:29:35 GMT -7
Thanks for that suggestion Todd! Never knew this outfit even existed but I will check it out for sure! Thanks again!!
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Post by Bullshop on Nov 26, 2023 8:53:05 GMT -7
Remember most of but not all the Husqvarna 9.3x57 rifles you will see will be on the small ring action. I have seen a few on the large ring action. If you find one on a large ring there is always the option of re-chambering to the 9.3x62 cartridge. Avoid anything you might find in 9.3x64 because the brass is very hard to find. It can be made but requires turning the belts off magnum brass and swaging the heads which is beyond simple tools. The 9.3x74 is almost always found in single shots and combination guns so not an issue. Older 9.3mm cartridges even longer than 74mm are even more rare and were for single shots and combination guns.
Load data for the 9.3x57 is held lower than that for the 62 or 64 mm case. Probably because of the predominant use of the small ring action for the 57 mm case. The small ring being weaker than the large ring is an immensely controversial subject. The rules of physics would naturally say that is true the question is how true is it.
I have seen the results of pressure testing of the small ring Mauser type action in the Swedish 6.5x55 chambering and those were digesting pressures equal to the large ring without issue. I guess the safety margin to total destruction would be thinner but the question there would be, " is it enough ".
Its kind of like the 308 win to 30-06 relationship but in that case the smaller cartridge is generally loaded to higher pressure than the larger so there is not much performance difference until you get to the heaviest bullet weights where the larger case because it can hold a greater volume of the slower burning powders that are more compatible with heavier bullets would start to widen the gap. When both are loaded to the same pressure with mid weight bullets and faster burning powders there is not at all much performance difference.
For me considering the fact that I only shoot cast bullets in either the 57mm or 62mm case I would never load to max allowable listed pressures anyway. One big benefit of cast bullets is that they can equal the velocity of their equal weight jacketed counter parts but at a lower pressure. So as an example lets say that you have load data for the 62mm case that is pushing a 280 grain jacketed bullet to 2500 fps at 58,000 psi. Now going to the smaller 57mm case you may find that you can get very close to that same 2500 fps velocity with the same 280 grain bullet weight but this time a cast bullet at 10,000 psi lower pressure at about 48,000 psi. Now look up the industry established max pressures for each action type both large and small ring Mauser actions and you will find that you are just about right there.
Some people will feel that in going to a hard cast non expanding bullet you are accepting a loss in terminal performance but in my experience that is not true. For a good understanding on the subject and this not turning into a book read Veral Smith's book "" jacketed performance with cast bullets"" In my experience a heavy for caliber non expanding bullet with wide meplate of at least 65% of caliber at normal hunting range say to 150 yards the non expanding bullet will have a permanent wound channel equal to or larger than an expanding bullet of the same weight started out at the same velocity. The reason is the non expanding bullet will have a higher retained terminal velocity throughout its penetration depth and more often give complete penetration with a wide wound channel through and through where as an expanding bullet will more rapidly decelerate and stop inside. Both are effective but for big tough things that might bite or stomp I prefer the through and through penetration with broken bones in between.
Anyway I have rambled on enough and to keep it simple I always just simply let the rifle talk to me and I listen to what its saying mostly regardless of what the book says.
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Post by grasshopper on Nov 26, 2023 10:17:52 GMT -7
You know me I could listen to you all day pard!😂 That’s really interesting about the small vs large ring debate, seems kind of silly to me but to each their own. I just can’t imagine there are too many folks today that are loading too and above max pressures these days, to what end and what purpose? I agree with you about heavy for cal weights and solid almost non expanding bullets. I agree mainly because of your practical experience and reading all of Capsticks book s about hunting and guiding for dangerous game in Africa. He always preached about using those type bullets because he said they would break the largest bones and “anchor” the animal and that other bullets would just break apart and not retain enough mass to get the job done.
As an aside one of the funniest things I remember reading in his books was what he used and how he dressed when he hunted leopards. He said he preferred a Winchester model 12 with a shortened barrel and OO buck, he also said he would wear a baseball catchers chest pad and face mask in case the big cat were to jump on him!! I suppose necessity is truly the mother of invention!
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Post by Bullshop on Nov 26, 2023 20:10:24 GMT -7
Those big cats have the nasty habit of holding on with front feet and teeth then using the hind feet to disembowel. Thats a nasty way to go to have your belly shredded and insides spill out. I can see where the catchers pad would help prevent it or at least minimize it. In that situation you might want to have a good big knife handy too because in a clinch I wouldn't want anybody trying to shoot him off me. Maybe my tri ball load put up in 460 S&W cases loaded in a Bond Arms two barrel 45/410 derringer. Two shots and six 45 holes should drop oil pressure fast.
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