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Post by Junior on May 7, 2024 2:30:18 GMT -7
I was reading a old Skeeter article this evening regarding him only having one gun if he had to run for the hills, and packing stuff to reload for that gun.
He picked a 5” model 27, which is a fine choice, and noted that enough supplies to load 500 rounds of 357 and the tools to make bullets and load the ammo weighed 16lb.
At first I thought this was a pretty marvelous ideal. I mean what guy hasn’t pondered an end of days and living off of the land scenario.
But something caught ahold of me and I decided to grab 500 rounds of a moderate 357 ammo pushing a 158gn SWC bullet at about 1150 fps. This load would be enough to handle game hunting, both big and small, as well as self defense.
I put those 500 rounds of ammo on the scale and it weighed just a hair over 16lb. So for the same weight, and about the same amount of space I could carry the same amount of ammo ready to rock and roll without having to deal with trying to melt lead, cast and lube bullets, and assemble ammo on the go. Loaded ammo is also much more resistant to rain or water than a brick of primers would be.
Now, the advantage of the reloading tools is that if you found more lead, you could make more bullets, but you would still need primers and power. He only showed a single box of cases in his kit, which means that by the time 500 rounds had been fired, that brass would have 10 reloads on it and probably be near the end of its life.
I think it would probably be easier to scrounge 38 special or 357 ammo vs trying to find powder and primers at the end of the world.
Just my late night thoughts. It was still an excellent article.
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Post by missionary on May 7, 2024 7:57:51 GMT -7
That will always be a perplexing issue.. I would go with a 41 Mag or 44 Special. Probably a Ruger BH with a 5+" barrel. A mold cut with 3 cavities... 150 FN, 200 FN and a 250 FN if I could. 2 pounds of Unique. 1000 primers. 200 brass. Lee Aluminum hand held press. Sizer honed to my equalized cylinder throats.
Remember you will always come across ammo. Break it down for components. We shot 44-40 for years down in LLama Land using 45 ACP military for lead, powder and primer. Used 9mm for our 38 Specials.
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Post by Bullshop on May 7, 2024 8:38:26 GMT -7
Im tired of running. I will just try to defend my hoard or die trying. When I was a kid back in NY state I was obviously different from other kids and some of my friends parents told me I didn't belong there, like I didn't fit in. As a young adult I was more than once asked what I was doing there , and again I didn't belong there or fit in. I have been running a long time and though when I made it to Alaska I finally found a place where I was not so different from many and nearly normal. Now where I am in Dell MT its been ten years here and I have run the gauntlet of newbies and made it out the other side. I am getting old and tired of running so this is my last stand. I will die here peacefully or violently defending depending on the choice of others.
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Post by todddoyka on May 7, 2024 9:59:24 GMT -7
Im tired of running. I will just try to defend my hoard or die trying. When I was a kid back in NY state I was obviously different from other kids and some of my friends parents told me I didn't belong there, like I didn't fit in. As a young adult I was more than once asked what I was doing there , and again I didn't belong there or fit in. I have been running a long time and though when I made it to Alaska I finally found a place where I was not so different from many and nearly normal. Now where I am in Dell MT its been ten years here and I have run the gauntlet of newbies and made it out the other side. I am getting old and tired of running so this is my last stand. I will die here peacefully or violently defending depending on the choice of others. i can't run (really can't run, i had a stroke) so i might as well die here too.
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Post by Junior on May 7, 2024 15:19:17 GMT -7
At this point in life, and where I live I would have to go with a 44 mag, but I would take a rifle too. 44 mag from a carbine delivers almost double the muzzle energy as it does out of a 4” barreled handgun. Right now my go to would be a stainless 4 5/8” barrel super Blackhawk, and a smith and Wesson lever action 44 magnum with a short can on it. Shooting 44 specials subsonic out of the rifle with the suppressor allows for nearly silent shots, but still plenty of energy for moose of bear with 300gn full power magnums. The can I have breaks down to about 3” in its shortest form, and you can add 1/2” long segments to it to extend it out to about 8” for more sound suppression. In the short form, it still significantly reduces noise even with full power magnums, and barely adds any bulk to the rifle. The whole can with all baffles only weighs 8oz.
I wouldn’t pack reloading supplies though. I would take about half and half full magnum loads and lighter plinking loads, and go. The 44 mag is very popular up here, and ammo will be fairly easy to come up with in old cabins and other places one might be able to scrounge.
If I was in the lower 48 and now worried about moose and bear, it would be a similar combo in 357 magnum.
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Post by Bullshop on May 7, 2024 15:50:21 GMT -7
The 357 mag was once the most powerful hand gun cartridge in the world pre 1955 and dirty Harry Calahan. Phill Sharp in his book from the 30's raves about it and its tremendous power. It seems to have a rather poopoo sentiment now with several bigger badder cartridges available. Still a stout loaded 357 mag with a heavy bullet can accomplish many tasks well perhaps not as well as bigger badder but adequately. It is to me by far the easiest magnum handgun cartridge to shoot well because of its reduced recoil from bugger badder. If your going to carry 16 pounds of ammo that will be quite a few more rounds in favor of the 357 over anything bigger. 38 special brass is still pretty cheap and in my load testing I have proven the 38's can be loaded to the same velocity as 357's when loaded to the same length. Sometimes when loading 35 caliber rifle bullets where the crimp groove is not located properly for use in a revolver because of the resulting over all cartridge length when using mag brass using a 38 special case is a perfect fit with the bullet seated to and crimped into the crimp groove that when using slower burning mag type pistol powders becomes important for ignition uniformity. I like the 357 mag because it seems to like me.
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Post by grasshopper on May 11, 2024 17:15:52 GMT -7
At first thought anyway I most likely would choose a 44 mag like JR. My choice probably comes down to having more experience with the 44 than the 38 or 357 cartridges. JR also reminded me of a “class” we’ll call it from my Army career when some very “special” people came and taught an intensive combat pistol class. The biggest takeaway from that class for me, and later on during combat situations I found totally accurate was when he stated “ any rifle beats any handgun any day!” When I first heard that I honestly didn’t know if it was necessarily true or not. What he further explained was for the average Joe, a rifle having a longer sight radius is most often easier to shoot than a handgun is for most people. Of course there are always exceptions. Just thought I would mention it to see what the folks here have to say. Thanks!
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Post by Bullshop on May 11, 2024 18:12:46 GMT -7
I agree 100% that a rifle is easier to shoot ACCURATELY than any handgun. That applies to accuracy. Now when things are close and personal a rifle may be nearly impossible to bring to bare quickly enough to be effective. I have read that within punching distance a knife is even faster. My personal combat experience has never been with anyone shooting back but it sure has been with critters bent on hurting me. What I can say from my experience is that if you have four or five steps between you and trouble a short barreled rifle is fast accurate and deadly.
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Post by grasshopper on May 12, 2024 5:10:50 GMT -7
I agree and I should have been more clear about the rifle statement. When you were falling timber and that bear got your bag a pistol is probably just what you needed! They taught us that if an enemy can get within 21 steps, not sure how many yards that might be, if he has a knife he can get to you before 99% of people could get their pistol in action. So I suppose the answer is no one gun can do it all in every situation!!
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Post by Bullshop on May 12, 2024 7:52:32 GMT -7
That encounter with the bear was kind of unusual in that I had to take back my pistol from the bear first. While he was occupied with ripping my pack open for the food that was in it as well as the gun I came up from behind him and whacked him on the back as hard as I could with a stout spruce limb. That sting made him dash from the pack far enough that I could get the gun out before he got back to me. On his return before I even knew what happened I had fired one single action shot and then three quick double action shots with the 5" barreled Ruger Red Hawk 44 mag with Elmers load with the 250 grain Keith bullet on 22 grain of 2400.
I won that battle but shortly after bought a Freedom Arms 454 Casull. After finding the Freedom Arms revolver due to having such tight tolerances not to be dependable in the field I went back to the simplicity and dependability of a Ruger single action in 45 Colt. The Ruger is loosy goosy compared to the FA but it always works under any conditions.
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Post by shootist---Gary on May 12, 2024 22:14:33 GMT -7
Daniel, not many people know this about me, but as a non athletic kid raised on a farm in eastern Ohio, my parents had told me that they didn't want to hear about me fighting in school, so, I literally ran instead of fighting. In high school, i was basketball team manager in charge of balls, uniforms, & other associated requirements. On days that we had evening practices, I was allowed to drive the family car a 1954 Ford Ranch Wagon, that the rear seat folded down. I had a Mossberg bolt action .22 rifle, that along with a box of cb caps, I would put under the folded down seat, & on the way home, on back roads after dark, once in a while would pop a rabbit. At home, I would clean it in a corncrib, the put it in the freezer. One evening, during practice, one of the players jumped me as I was collecting practice jerseys in the shower room after practice. When I went to go home, my car was missing. I hadn't locked it, & 4 of the players pushed it down hill into the muddy playground. As I was looking for it, those 4 came running past me. I located the car, took the rifle out, made sure that it was unloaded, ran to the end of the driveway, & pointed it & yelled at them. 3 of them disappeared in the dark, but the biggest one, an avid hunter & fisherman, slowly walked back towards me, begging me not to shoot him. I then told him that the gun was unloaded, but the next time it would be. The word got around quickly, & 2 days later, my father questioned me about it. I lost my car privileges for a month, & my rifle for 60 days. After that, I never had any more problems at school. Many years later, while sitting at the counter in a small bar, eating a burger, Bill walked by me, stopped & asked if I was Gary. We hadn't seen each other since we graduated in 1961, & he went to Viet Nam with the Marines. He asked me if I remembered that night after school, & I said yes. He told me that in V. Nam, he was never as afraid of dying as that night. We both learned a big lesson from that. I once almost shot a man that was breaking in my semi, with my .44 Mag. Flat Top Ruger. I scared him off without firing a shot, & have never carried a gun with me since, except for hunting or pleasure shooting. I'm afraid that under the right situation, I might shoot someone.
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Post by Bullshop on May 13, 2024 5:49:00 GMT -7
My thought Gary is that it is better to have a gun and not need it than to need one and not have it. There are a lot of good people in this world but there are also some that seem to lack a soul that are dangerous and without conscience or remorse for their actions for which there is no limit to advance their personal gain. It is from those that we must beware and be prepared. If in the process of defending your life from an attack of one of those you are forced to use that gun it was not your decision that caused it but there's and the end result was the consequence of their bad decision not yours. The instinct for self defense is God given to every creature on earth from the smallest rodent to the largest pachyderm humans included. If it were not so humans would have ceased to exist on this planet before they ever got a good start.
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Post by grasshopper on May 17, 2024 14:07:01 GMT -7
On the topic of self defense I’ll share what I told my son once he was of age to be out and about on his own with a gun and especially a handgun. My opinion on the topic of self defense is pretty simple and straightforward. If a villain has designs on doing physical harm to me or someone I love I will do and use anything available to me to stop said villain from accomplishing his mission. I told my son this and also told him to think long and hard to see if the situation warrants producing his handgun. In today’s backwards society it’s a sickening fact that in most cases a person would be in more trouble for brandishing a firearm than they would for actually shooting a villain. So my final thoughts to him were that if in his best judgment the situation warrants pointing a firearm at an adversary the decision of shooting or not shooting should pretty well if been made by that point. If push comes to shove to stop a villain from hurting you or the ones you love follow through and use the tools you have at the time and know in your heart you are right no matter public opinion.
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Post by Bullshop on May 17, 2024 15:43:35 GMT -7
I have pondered this long and hard many times. From a Biblical point of view what would be the proper response to a really bade situation. Jesus said to turn the other cheek but I am not sure if he meant unto death. The old testament Bible says an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. But the Bible also says and I have always held this in high regard that a man that does not provide for his family is worse than an infidel. If you turned the other cheek and allowed yourself to be killed then you cant very well provide for your family. If someone nabs a tool box out of my truck that is one thing but if while doing it he is threatening my life which in effect is threatening my families means of living that is a whole other game and the rules change from obeying God to survival instinct. When running on instinct rational thought is not in the equation.
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