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Post by shootist---Gary on Dec 11, 2023 16:36:44 GMT -7
Daniel, I just got my .45 cal T/C Hawken scoped, & am wondering what cast bullet that you recommend for it for W.T. Deer hunting & just shooting it at the range? I found some cast unlubed Maxi Balls at a local gun shop, so I bought them, came home & weighed them on my digital powder scale, anywhere from high 220 gr. to just above 230 gr. No consistency, so I know that good accuracy will not happen. I was just surfing, & a fellow on "High Plains Muzzle Loading" site swears by your .50 cal. bullets & NASA Lube. So, as I have been happy with the bullets that you have recommended for me, do it again. I tried to call Tina today, but the ans. machine didn't take my message, so I'll send her a PM on FB, so you can have her give me a price for 100.
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Post by Bullshop on Dec 12, 2023 8:31:56 GMT -7
It will ultimately depend on the rifling twist rate of your barrel. The vintage of your rifle will have some bearing on the twist. Early TC rifles had slow twist for patched ball. Later they tried to add versatility by going with faster twist. Lyman offers two different twist rates in their rifles one slow for patched ball and one fast for conical bullets. Its about impossible to say without shooting just what you have.
At some point TC tried to standardize and went to a compromise twist of 1/48" but that is neither fast or slow so really limited the best of both. A 1/48 will shoot a conical but it will be limited as to its length/weight. This applies to a plain flat base bullet but not to a hollow base bullet. A hollow base minie type bullet uses form stabilization in conjunction with spin stabilization so can shoot accurately even with a rifling twist rate that is normally too slow for the bullets length' Now the water is getting really muddy and you can see the only correct answer is it depends.
If your barrel is the 1/48" twist and you want to shoot conical plain base bullets then the one I would suggest trying is the Lyman Great Plains bullet. This bullet at about 385 grain in 50 caliber will be about the max length for your twist, Still there is the issue of bullet diameter and again the only way to be sure is by trial and error. I can not predict what it will be. I had a TC Encore 209x50 barrel that required a .500" to .501" bullet diameter and that seemed kind of tight. Most 50 caliber bullets we sell for use in ML request .503" but in my encore barrel that was impossibly tight.
The maxi ball bullets you bought may be too long as they are a plain base design with very wide lube grooves that make the bullet quite long for its weight. Another negative of the maxi also related to the wide lube grooves is the inconsistent ejection of lube in flight, something that does not lead to target accuracy.
I wish I had a simple answer for you and the many others that contact me thinking I will have but there is no simple answer because of the variables involved. You would be surprised to know how many people are a week out from their hunting season with a new to them rifle they have spent zero time with and want me to send them the magic bullet for their hunt. What it boils down to is as always each rifle is an individual that requires special treatment and the only way to learn what that is will be to spend time with the rifle.
The initial start is hard because you dont know what diameter bullet you need so about all you can do is to start out with a sample pack of one each of all available diameters which in this case from us is .500" , .501", .502", .503", .504" That will get most of the diameter issue out of the way but maybe not quite all because in use you still may have to decide on the best compromise between clean bore and fouled bore diameters. Its always a compromise between too tight and too loose. With a too loose bullet it can move off the powder charge in handling the rifle and if fired when the bullet is somewhere at mid barrel length can act as a barrel obstruction and cause serious damage. If too tight the bullet will have to be pounded down to the powder which will destroy the bullet and any chance of accuracy. Add in the clean or fouled condition and it gets complicated so you are always looking for that compromise fit.
We will help your journey in what ever way we can.
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Post by Bullshop on Dec 12, 2023 8:54:42 GMT -7
Gary I didnt see the 45 caliber in the beginning of your post only the 50. Sorry for that and my bullet suggestion of the Lyman great plains 50 cal will be wrong. The point is still valid though about twist rate and bullet diameter. The range of diameter we offer for 45 cal ML is .450", .451", .452", .453", .454".
A nice aspect of having a 45 cal ML is that most 45 cal cartridge bullet designs will work so we have a large selection of choices.
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Post by Bullshop on Dec 12, 2023 11:23:29 GMT -7
I will go out on a limb for you Gary not knowing your rifling twist rate or bore/groove dimensions just going on averages and will suggest for you TC 45 cal our Mountain Molds 330 grain Keith bullet at .451" diameter. I am shooting an early Lyman plains rifle in 45 caliber and right now since we are into our heritage ML season it is loaded with the Lyman Gould 330 grain hollow point which it shoots very well. The reason I do not suggest the same bullet for you is that the HP bullets are slower to make and if your not hunting have no benefit to making holes in paper. The 330 Keith will work for both and is easier to make. If you will hunt with it I can make you some of the Gould bullets.
My rifle is supposed to have the 1/48" twist but since it shoots up to a 400 grain conical well I have to wonder. That is a good reason to get acquainted with your rifle because if I had just assuned what would work in my rifle I would only be shooting a patched ball and so greatly reducing my practical hunting ramge. I am shooting 70 grain of FFG powder with the 330 Gould bullet so basically its a 45-70 which will have far greater range potential than a patched ball.
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Post by shootist---Gary on Dec 13, 2023 17:04:09 GMT -7
Thanks for the reply Daniel. I am going to load a low charge, 35 or 40 gr. FFG, then a lubed patch, then 1 of the Maxi Balls that I bought. Then run another lubed patch down to the bullet & then try to pull the engraved bullet back out without distorting it, then mail it to you for you to measure. That way if it won't come out, I can shoot it out. Being I didn't think of this before the scope mount was mounted & the screws set with Lock Tite, the breech plug can't be removed without taking everything apart. Do you have a better solution?
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Post by Bullshop on Dec 13, 2023 18:03:13 GMT -7
Yea I have a better idea. Shoot a few of he maxi balls and see if they stabilize. That will give a hint as to the rifling twist rate. I cast you some bullets today that I want to send as a gift, I just need your address. Because ML barrels and rifle cartridge barrels in 45 caliber have been the same for a long time the 45 caliber rifle barrels bore/groove dimensions are probably the closest to being standardized at .450"x .458". Most of the 45 cal ML I have tried are a good fit with a .451" bullet diameter. I do have a Spanish 45 here that is stamped 45 cal but the grooves measure .442" so is really a 44 caliber. With any domestic rifle like TC you should be pretty safe assuming standard.
I will size a batch of these 330 grain bullets I made today at .451" and send them off to you. Between these and what you already have you should be able to learn something about your rifle and once the learning begins everything just keeps getting better. Its just a little hard getting started sometimes. I often forget that unlike me not everyone has all the possible choices right at their finger tips. Not only that but all I have to do to get to the shooting range is step out the door. Pretty lucky huh.
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Post by Bullshop on Dec 14, 2023 18:54:56 GMT -7
Some bullets headed your way today.
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Post by shootist---Gary on Dec 15, 2023 11:40:46 GMT -7
Thank you. I just found the Lyman mould number for the T/C 245 gr. .45 cal. Maxi Ball. It is: 454616, but has been discontinued.
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Post by shootist---Gary on Dec 18, 2023 12:36:18 GMT -7
Hi Daniel. The box of bullets arrived this afternoon. I took 1 out of the box, & inserted it base first in the muzzle, it didn't drop in, but will, with not much pressure, slide into the barrel. It doesn't wobble any, so I think that it is almost exactly the diameter of the lands of the rifling. According to my micrometer, your bullet is .451 dia. & one of the T/C Maxi Balls that I bought last year at a gun shop, measured .453 on the top engraving band, & 451 on the bottom band. The bottom (base) band guides the bullet, & the rifling engraves the top one, or at least that was what T/C said. I will have to check to see if the ones you sent will work in my Uberti S.A. .45 Colt. if they will, I will pay you for them. If not, I'll return them. Thanks.
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Post by Bullshop on Dec 18, 2023 12:55:31 GMT -7
No pay required Gary and also no return required. If you dont want them gift them to someone else.
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