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Post by grasshopper on Mar 17, 2023 13:33:05 GMT -7
Hello sports fans! I’ve been looking at more guns online lately and last month I attended the second largest gun show in the country. On the verge of sounding like a broken record or really old, I simply can’t believe the prices of what I consider “common” guns. Things like a common Winchester model 94 that sold 10 years ago for a couple hundred bucks in nice shape now sell for between $800 and $1000! and we aren’t even talking about pre 64 model 94s! This is of course in my area and I’m quite curious what it’s like where you are. Another example that comes to mind is just about any S&W K,L, or N frame, these guns could easily be found new in the box for between $400-$900, now these guns sell for two or three times the price. Finally I’m sure everyone that posts here has seen the extreme rise of any Marlin lever gun. These used to be working hunters guns and now it seems overnight they have become extremely rare collectibles! Sorry if this sounds like a rant or vent I’m really just trying to figure out what’s up. Some will say it’s supply and demand but I don’t really think so because I still see all these guns in shops, at shows and online. So the supply is still there but the prices have gone way up. Thanks in advance for any information you can provide.
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Post by Junior on Mar 17, 2023 17:04:37 GMT -7
Used gun prices are crazy. I bought a new Glock last week for less then I could find a used one for on gunbroker.
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Post by missionary on Mar 17, 2023 18:13:48 GMT -7
Do not forget what is driving the prices. The value of the dollar is a joke. Next is the commi red flag followers. Should mention all the "new / 1st time gun owners.
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Post by grasshopper on Mar 17, 2023 19:02:30 GMT -7
I agree for sure with you Mike, on both points. If I’m not mistaken I read someplace that during the main COVID event they estimated there were over 4 million new gun owners and that was the main reason for the ammo and components shortage. I didn’t mention it before but I’m said to say that another huge factor is plain ole greed! Some, not all of the dealers saw what they could charge these new generations, millennial,X,Z(not all of them Junior) these totally inflated gun prices. Junior you are right on the money also! The local Cop shop used to be a fantastic place to buy quality name brand weapons in terrific shape for a third of the MSRP and it was an easy way to make a few extra bucks. Clean up the barley used weapon that came in its factory box and you could normally make $100-200 per gun. Maybe there are way too many first time gun owners that wanna be John Wick or something! Thanks for the reply’s!
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Post by missionary on Mar 18, 2023 7:10:31 GMT -7
Howdy Garry.. Good to read you are still "hopping about". I have missed the Lexington Show every time north. Made it to Tulsa once in the fall.
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Post by Bullshop on Mar 18, 2023 7:26:30 GMT -7
Along with the other points made I will add from my perspective in the industry that from what I am seeing there is also a willingness to accept inflated pricing. From our online auctions I have learned not to set prices on items but to let the market decide the price and in many cases the market price was way higher than what I in good conscience would have set the price at. Ammo component prices are outrageously high too and those without foresight are paying those prices. Availability is still a major issue with things becoming available from distributers and within minutes being sold out which also intern keeps prices elevated. The only way I can justify purchasing at current pricing is to likewise increase my pricing to maintain profit margin and the fact that I struggle to keep up with orders shows a willingness to pay or the acceptance of current pricing. We have seen this trend dew to multiplying inflation in other parts of the world where first pricing increases at a feverish rate then items are simply not available and I believe that is what is driving the willingness to pay the inflated prices the idea that if I dont get it now it will soon be gone and I wont get it at all.
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Post by grasshopper on Mar 18, 2023 10:00:09 GMT -7
I agree with what you are saying about the components being super expensive or nonexistent. I also know that when push comes to shove a business sometimes must raise their price simply to stay in business. Some might say I’m sounding a little paranoid but this could also be part of a master plan to disarm our citizens. I would guess that only about 10% of gun owners reload their ammo. Note I said reload, gun owners that actually hand load are fewer still. It is also more than a little scary that people are so terrified of not having firearms and the ammo for them they will go out and pay these obscene prices. Please do not misunderstand what I’m saying, a business must make a profit or it won’t be a business very long at all. Raising the prices on guns or ammo between 10-20% is fair during this nation restocking we will call it. Conversely raising the prices on these same products between 100-300% is just plain greed. I shared with Dan that several of the regular dealers you see at every gun show in this area have some guns that they have had on their tables for ten years or more! I do not understand how these dealers break even after table rental, gas or diesel for the trip, food and shelter for 2-3 nights. Just my two cents, your mileage may vary.
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Post by todddoyka on Mar 18, 2023 11:51:42 GMT -7
i am a member of Generation X. when i was young once, the used Win m94 (30-30) costs about $100 - $150, pre and post '64. the m94 in 32 Win Special would go $300 - $700. i started handloading(early 20 yo) the Lyman reloading kit was roughly $275 - $300, a pound of powder was around $18 - $25, 1000 primers was $20 and jacketed bullets was around $15 - $20 (100 bullets). RCBS reloading dies went for $20 - $25. i bought my dad (RIP) two bags of 100 pcs of 7x30 Waters brass that were $25 a bag. i could buy a crate of SKS rifles (wrapped up with cosmoline) for $600 - $700. i should have bought that!!!! i could sell 2 SKS rifles and have a profit!!!.
i was the last Generation to use money, not the plastic card that is used now. i was one of them who played OUTSIDE!!!! i knew that by time the street light went on or my mom screaming my name, it was time to go home. in school, wood paddles (with or without holes) were used by teachers (i signed my name on many of them). parents, veterans and cops were respected.
too much of gimme that and not enuff work to own.
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Post by grasshopper on Mar 18, 2023 12:37:24 GMT -7
Todd, Amen Amen Amen!! I’m a gen X guy myself and you forgot to mention one of the most serious activities when we played outside, you had to build your own fort!🤣 I remember buying bricks of 500 22lr ammo for less than $10 back then. I grew up in the country and nobody got upset to see several 10-12 year old boys walking down the road with their 22 rifles or single shot shotguns! The worst thing that could possibly happen was if a neighbor thought he saw you being unsafe with a gun and if he did either he would jerk a knot in your tail or worse tell your father! Game over at that point!! I remember going to a place where people would dump stuff illegally, old cars, refrigerators, washers etc, lots of times we would stay at least half a day shooting field rats and the people and the snakes were happy we provided the service. It sure makes me sad that those days are long gone now and will never be back I’m afraid!!
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Post by Bullshop on Mar 18, 2023 16:05:29 GMT -7
If we only knew then huh!
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Post by Junior on Mar 19, 2023 2:37:53 GMT -7
Grasshopper mentioned the $10 a brick 22 ammo. I was a kid at the tail end of that era. I remember paying $9.99 at down under guns for CCI Blazer 22 ammo.
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Post by grasshopper on Mar 19, 2023 3:35:30 GMT -7
I always thought that was a funny almost strange name for that gun store up in Fairbanks! Is it still open for business Junior? The first time we went to town I was trying to find all the gun stores and see what they had for sale. I bought my first Marlin “Guide Gun” maybe the first one ever! Let me explain, this would of been late 1995 or early 1996. The Marlin I found was a early 1895 and I’m pretty sure it had a micro groove barrel. The guys behind the counter explained that it had belonged to a bush pilot/ fishing guide. He had cut the barrel back to 17 inches and had cut about 3 inches from the butt and put a shotgun style leather recoil pad. The asking price you ask? I really had to think about it but I forked over the $150 bucks they were asking! Talk about cheap! Oh and I forgot it had either a Lyman or red field receiver sight on it and the front was a good size brass bead. The rifle also came with a set of rcbs 45-70 dies and the piece that was cut from the stock. I kept that rifle for quite awhile till someone who shall remain nameless traded me out of it for something.🤣 I thought it was funny that about a year or two after I bought it Marlin came out with their own factory guide gun!!
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Post by Bullshop on Mar 19, 2023 7:14:10 GMT -7
Down under guns went out of business but when they did they treated their good customers right. Kirk the son of the Woman that owned it pretty much gave things away to loyal customers because his mom was getting married to a fella that Kirk thought just wanted the store. He sold me everything in the store related to ammo loading and bullet casting for a token amount. That was a whole lot of stuff for very little money. He did the same with everything in the store for folks that had been regular loyal customers then closed the doors. He told me then he was off to law school to become a lawyer.
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Post by grasshopper on Mar 19, 2023 10:13:55 GMT -7
Do you have a guess as to about what year that would of been my friend? After 2000 I’m guessing, I always made a point to stop by there anytime I was in town. I remember there being several shops that probably had less than 20 guns max. One of those stores and I can’t remember what it was called but it was close to the mill and mine store, anyway a little old lady ran and owned it, she had a first year Browning Safari in 284 with the Sako action. Those are super rare because they only made a few in 284, I’m thinking it was really low like 50 or less. The rifle was always in there each time and she would never even price it. The only thing I ever bought from her was a black horse leather chest rig that fit my Freedom arms. I mentioned that guide gun prototype before, I can’t remember but I was thinking we did some horse trading and you had it for awhile, I wouldn’t bet on it though, not with my memory! I’m sure you made a point to go by Artic Gun Works whenever you were in town, what a jerk! Guy just seemed like he knew it all and was mad at the world!!
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Post by Bullshop on Mar 19, 2023 11:38:28 GMT -7
The guy your talking about from Artic Gun Works is Gary Junk a fitting name. I had him re-barrel a rolling block for me and he charged $450.00 and I supplied the barrel. I later found our that he didnt even do the work but sent it out because he couldnt cut the flat bottom threads used on original Rimington RB. I found out when I asked him a question about the barrel something that I specified but did not get. That is when he told me he didnt do the job because he couldnt answer the question. He sent it out for the work but then added his fee to the job. He simply lied to me when I asked him if he could cut Remington threads and he said he could do the job. I could have sent it out myself. Ticked me off when he wanted $450.00 to get my rifle back. I dont remember the year Down Under went out but it was shortly before we left Alaska which has been about ten years.
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Post by Junior on Mar 19, 2023 12:17:40 GMT -7
It’s been more than that. 2006 I think.
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Post by todddoyka on Mar 19, 2023 12:31:41 GMT -7
i remember $.69/50 cartridges of 22lr and $7 for 500 cartridges at the local Gee Bee and K Mart stores. i think that $5 or $6/25 high brass shells for 12, 16, 20 gauge and $4 or $5 for low brass. $8 for 30-30/20 cartridges and $10 for the '06. when the 30-30 and '06 went to $10 and $12, i decided to handload. that was the best investment EVER!!! although the Lyman turret press is now retired and it is replaced by a Lee Classic Cast Press. i have a Hornady Auto Charge Powder Dispenser (old one) that has replaced two of Lyman Beam Balance Scales. even tho i used and had them, i don't like any "plastic" guns. wood and blued steel, thank you. i'll even like a birch laminate, but where i draw the line is "plastic" guns. "plastic" has no place on a hunting rifle. "plastic" stocks, "plastic" gun parts, "plastic" magazines and whatever "plastic"-else. i know the gun manufacters' want to do gun building cheaply, but if you do it cheap, you get a piece of crap. back in the mid '90s, i had a chance to buy a Savage m99 in 250 Savage. it had a brass counter spool and a tang sight (rear sight too). best of all, its action was bereft of a scope and mount. whoever had it, the rifle was meticulously clean of scratches and dents, but it was used well. unfortunatly, we couldn't agree on a price and with a heavy heart, i left it there. i should have came up with $200 more , but i didn't have the money. i sold a bunch of guns to cover my divorce lawyer, but i shouldn't have sold the Ruger SRH (7.5" stainless barrel) in 44 mag. that has to be my most accurate handgun, bar none. 3/4" at 100 yards (bench/5 shots) was my best. normally it would go 1 1/2 - 2" groups at 100 yards, with a 1 1/4" group whenever the shooting gods smiled upon me. it liked to digest 200gr and 240gr Hornady XTPs with a hot charge of Win296 (something that i will NEVER do again!!!!). i killed 6 or 7 deer with it, my longest shot was 120+/- yards on a big doe. i believe it was a 200gr XTP, but it could have been a 240gr. the others were 30ish yards and under. i did buy another exact Ruger SRH, but i couldn't match the accuracy. so i sold it and bought a Ruger SBH (4 5/8" blued barrel) in 44 mag and i still have it with 4 or 5 deer under my big gut. i have, or rather gave my son a Mossberg m500 with a double bead sight in 12ga. that and a load Remington Heavy Game load of #6 did many of birds and rabbits in. i'm glad i gave it to my son, i figure since i am one armed and can't use a pump..........my son can. and no, i will not sell my Remington m14 in 30 Remington. i'm taking that and my post '64 Win m94 in 35/30-30 with me when i die.
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Post by Junior on Mar 19, 2023 13:34:45 GMT -7
I suppose while we are on the subject of cost, I learned yesterday of a mail forwarding company that will forward ammo, primers, and even black powder to their yard in fairbanks for very reasonable cost. This is huge since I havent been able to get primers up here for 2 years and I'm tired of paying $30 a box for 9mm that I can get for $12 with free shipping online. Now, I an order a case of ammo $250 and have it shipped up here for about $30 vs the $600 it would cost me to buy that same case of ammo locally.
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Post by grasshopper on Mar 19, 2023 14:36:42 GMT -7
Yeah Dan I knew his name was Gary Junk, he’s a retired helicopter pilot and to me he’s a gun parts changer, not a gunsmith. I just remember the first time I met him I was at an Anchorage show with you trying to help out and for some reason he got extremely upset you were selling loaded cartridges in obsolete calibers. I was proud of you for not losing your temper because he was acting like a total jerk, I’ll try to keep it PG13 but it still chaps my butt to this day the way he acted. I never once recommended anyone to use his services. Anyway I hate to hear down under went out of business but I’m really glad you were able to make the most of them closing shop.
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Post by Bullshop on Mar 19, 2023 16:56:46 GMT -7
I suppose while we are on the subject of cost, I learned yesterday of a mail forwarding company that will forward ammo, primers, and even black powder to their yard in fairbanks for very reasonable cost. This is huge since I havent been able to get primers up here for 2 years and I'm tired of paying $30 a box for 9mm that I can get for $12 with free shipping online. Now, I an order a case of ammo $250 and have it shipped up here for about $30 vs the $600 it would cost me to buy that same case of ammo locally. That is really good news Jr. If I were you I would start stocking up. We can order from OEM suppliers but they rarely have anything. When they do it goes fast. Your Mon found some primers at one distributer and they had a bunch listed in stock. She came to ask me if we should get some and I said all you can and by the time she got back online they were all gone. In todays market when you find something you better move on it without hesitation. Prices seldom go down especially not after a period of time that has allowed acceptance of high pricing. Our last and most recent batch of primers ran about $75.00 average per K but that was about two months ago and prices change fast. I would say that if you have a source and the shipper bite the bullet now because a year from now it could be much worse but I doubt better. Graff's and Sons is a good place for non dealers to look . We even as dealers still by from them but we do get dealer pricing. Right now availability is the critical issue even over high cost.
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