about the Hoch single shot action

I do not. Had pondered buying one some time ago but with the Rollers we have acuired over the years in 43 Spanish we are not in need of an action for another SS.
But at the other place in the SS section or the BPCR I did read a thread on the Hoch action. Been out there long enough should be treads at most SS sites.

When up north I go to our local range on Monday morning early so I can be alone and enjoy what I do. Another feller arrives about 10am but I normally am about done so it is a no issue.
C&H are good people. They always have been very helpful to me. Smart people! Others who have stuff to sell could learn alot from them.

You know Gary I remember meeting that fellow the one year I shot the Quigley. He shot the whole match off hand from his chair and he scored right up there with the top shooters. I also remember I did have fun. I was there as a vendor too but did not park in vendors row. I didnt even know about vendors row until much later. As usual I parked out 1947 Spartan camper clear in the back away from close neighbors. Tina sold bullets while I shot the match.
There was a young fella I met that was having a terrible time hitting anything and after the first day asked me for help. I looked over his new Italian Sharps and found the bore to be badly leaded. He was shooting some bullets he got from Midway the ones that are harder than chicken lipps and have the crumbly crayon lube.
We cleaned his rifle best we could while enjoying some home brew at his camp. We pulled all the bullets from his ammo and replaced them with my bullets with our lube. I told him that after a few shots our lube would help remove whatever lead was left in his barrel. The next day he started hitting targets and after the match his barrel was lead free. He was there with his FIL who later won the drawing for the new Sharps rifle. He was so excited he couldnt believe it was him. He kept looking for someone else with the same name to stand up. We had to help him stand up and push him along to go get his new rifle. That was fun too.

I got the Hoch 25 Hornet yesterday and just looking through the barrel I will guess somewhere around a 10" twist. The mold is for a tapered spitzer that I will guess slightly over 100gn. Hope to cast some today and find out for sure. The chamber appears tight and intended for breach seating with bullets from this mold. Yestereve I loaded one round of fixed ammo with a 65gn PB bullet sized to .259" and it will not fully chamber . If this rifle is to shoot fixed ammo as it is the case necks will have to be turned or a bullet diameter less than .259" or a combination of both will be in order. I wont alter the chamber because then the breach seating system may be rendered useless for accuracy. I am anxious to try it as intended. My intention is to go with about a BHN-9 to 10 alloy since the velocity of the cartridge due to its slight case volume will be limited to traditional black powder velocity at about 1300 fps. Let the chase begin!

Today was a busy day filling bullets orders, making lube, and draining the water heater tank I have to replace. There was no time for casting today so I am still ignorant about what dimensions will be from the bullets cast with the supplied mold. I did however shoot the rifle. It was a very quick (I was afraid of getting caught) informal test. I mounted an old El Paso Weaver steel tube K-10. I like those old K-10's for the long tube. I ran both adjusters to about center of adjustment range. I had four cartridges loaded with 2 grain of Trail Boss and the NOE 63gn PB. I rested over a pile of garbage that was in the PU bound for the dump. A large cardboard box at about 30 yards with about an inch black square was the target. The ammo had to be neck sized in a .269" sizer to chamber freely. The first shot was a couple inches low and right a good sign for having turrets at near center of adjustments. A quick adjustment put the next three shots in about a 35 caliber hole. That seems really encouraging to me. Now that I have that HAVE TO SHOOT IT thingy out of the way and since tomorrow is one of my two days per week off I hope to get some bullets cast with the mold that the gun is intended to shoot and load them the way they are intended to be loaded. The prey has been spotted and the chase begun!

Today Thursday 1/26/23 we are scrambling to get enough wood cut and split to get us through the weekend that they are saying our daily high temps will be below zero F. Wont be shooting much till it warms up aging. After we got a comfortable size pile of wood done I still had enough daylight to fire a few shots.
The increase to 7 grain of AA#9 grouped well at .497" for three shots at 100 yards but I decided to move to a slower powder for a couple reasons. Reason #1 is that apparently I was right about the powder that came in the charges cases being AA#9 and working up to the charge weight that came in the charged cases at 7.7gn and being almost there at 7 grain I feel that the 7.7gn charge was a bit too hot judging from the condition of the fired primers that came in the fired cases that came with the rifle and the fact that when I got the rifle it was badly leaded for about three inches ahead of the chamber. My solvent loosened it up and it came out in strips at first the just sparkles on the patch then finally free of lead.
Also someone from assra shooting a converted Stevens 25 RF mentioned in his fixed ammo that AA#9 seemed to work best for him in his converted rifle using shortened 22 hornet brass. That made me think a bit about how my rifle might be in comparison to his. Since he is shooting fixed ammo but I am breach seating bullets ahead of the case then my case volume is greater than his. Because I have to fill that void with something I have been using Styrofoam packing popcorn. That seems to be working good but I would rather have the case nearly filled with the right powder that will give the desired velocity of about 1400 fps but with nearly a case full of powder.
Since I just got done loading some 500 S$W ammo for a customer for which I used WC-680 powder and thinking it is quite a bit slower that AA#9 but still in the proper burn rate bracket I just went ahead and used the WC-680. Since the pre charged cases that came with the rifle held 7.7gn of the faster AA#9 I felt a good place to start with the WC-680 was about 9 grain and that turned out to be a good safe starting load. The load progression went like this for three shot 100 yard groups,
9gn --- .925"
10gn --- .783"
11gn --- .476"
The 11 grain powder charge only required a small amount of the PP just enough to stay in the case neck and keep the powder from falling out when loading. It seems to be progressing well and I plan on continuing with WC-680 for a bit until I figure out what a max charge is for best accuracy. Another area of testing has to be with primers. These loads were fired with standard small pistol primers but ball powders in this burn rate range of from AA#9 , H-110, and all three of the 680 powders including WC-680, Winchester 680, and AA# 1680 are notoriously hard to get consistent ignition from when used below their optimum pressure range which is about 40,000 psi which I am sure I am well below with this rifle. I like to use pistol primers starting out because they indicate high pressure sooner than a rifle primer will. There are still three primer types to try with magnum pistol, small rifle, and small rifle magnum.
I should also mention that the max load tried of 7gn with the AA#9 gave a three shot 100 yard group of .497" but a fourth shot in that group opened it up about 50%. I just happened to have four of those loaded from yesterday. I think that with this rifle and bullet weight and breach seating the bullet that AA#9 is too fast to be optimum. No doubt it will shoot good groups but I think a slower powder will be better. I may even find that a powder slightly slower than the 680 powders will work best . Ideally what I am after is a powder that with a full case burns clean and gives the targeted 1400 fps velocity. With that powder no filler will be needed and just a card or lube wad in the case mouth just to hold the powder in may be the best possible set up. I dont know for sure as I am just getting started but seem to be on the right track.
As for bullet alloy hardness the BHN-9 currently being used seems to well agree with the rifle. It is shooting good and seating easily.
Probably wont get to shoot again until late next week when hopefully the weather is more agreeable.  Stay tuned.

The balance I want to find is a case filling powder that will burn clean and give very close to the targeted velocity of 1400 fps. WC-680 or any of the 680 powders may be the powder or something one or two positions slower on the burn rate chart. I am shooting a plain base bullet in a soft alloy so I think that velocity much over 1400 fps will begin to stray from top accuracy. This is a very efficient bullet and will have a decent BC so should still group well at 200 maybe even 300 yards if the wind is steady.
I think it will be fun and interesting to see how well it can group out to 300 yards on a sunny calm spring day. Hopefully that is not too far off because I am getting a little burnt on battling cold and wind and snow.
Yesterday I learned that the mold that came with the rifle was made by Dave Moss. That discovery was made by looking at 25 caliber rifles on the CPA Stevens site trying to find their chamber specs for the 25 hornet which they do offer. They showed the exact mold as being made by Dave Moss. Doing a little research on Dave Moss I found that he is a vet having depression / anxiety problems and has been through serious mistakes with wrong meds prescribed by PROFESSIONALS (pill pushers)! Apparently he is no longer making molds and that is too bad because he made good ones that with proper use will out last many users.

OK so we got a nice plump pile of wood all split up and ready for the approaching cold. The weather gurus are saying it will start dropping this PM and starting tomorrow and for the next couple days our highs will be in the single digits below zero and our lows will be in the double digits below zero.
After we got the wood all split I still had time to shoot a little. I started looking at a powder burn rate chart and found Accurate # 2200 a few positions slower than WC-680 so decided to try that. Starting at 11.5gn AA2200 I shot a fair three shot group but didnt measure it. Instead I just decided to go to 12 gn and shoot the same group. Those two combined loads shot a .832" for the combined six shots. Wanting to try a group with the 12gn charge I loaded five cases with that charge. Those five rounds gave a .541" group. The 2200 powder very nearly fills the case so just a small tuft of PP is needed to hold the powder in the case. Just to see what if I also tried three shots with 12.5gn and that was where I went over the top and the grouping went wild.
So I have a couple loads now that seem to want to hang right around the .5 MOA mark and that is not bad but I am surely not satisfied that its the best I can get. I think to start shaving off that half inch mark I will have to start weighing powder charges and bullets. So far bullets are just randomly chosen and powder charges thrown. If I am going to get this shaved down in group size I think all the BR tricks need to be applied including weighing brass and uniforming primer pockets.
I also think I might switch from the old Weaver K-10 to an also old steel tube Weaver T-20 to maybe see the center of the bull a little better. One thing for sure I am well on my way.

Going back to the burn rate chart this evening I found Alliant Reloader #7 a couple positions on the slower side of AA 2200. I thought RE-7 may be too bulky to get enough weight in the case but found that 12 gn RE -7 filled the case to about the same level as did 12 gn of 2200. I think about 12.5 gn will have the case totally full with maybe enough room for a thin wad. I have three loaded with the starting load of 12gn re-7 so next time out will try those but I dont expect that to be for a few days until after it warms up again. I commandeered Tina's plyer type paper punch and found it punches perfect 25 caliber wads so I punched out a bunch from a Styrofoam picnic plate. About 12.5gn RE-7 with one of those styro wads should give that 100% full case load and I am guessing stay within acceptable pressures but the jury is still out on weather it will produce the desired velocity. Lord willing we shall see.

This place is somewhere that I can stop and capture my thoughts and then have a way to re-visit them. If not for that they would just spin out of control and be lost to everyone and as is often the case even me. It really helps me to organize my thoughts and keep them moving in a positive direction toward a goal. Sometimes life interrupts for short periods and without this reference I may not get back to where I was without repeating the process. This has been good for me and would be even if I was alone here but I am sure glad I am not.

Another of those fine points I am not real faithful in observing. I should start a "Always remember" list ad re-read it often.

Yes Sir still very cold well below zero but should start a warming trend starting today and head back into the mid 20's for our day time high in a couple days. I will consider the mid 20's shooting weather and try to keep moving forward with the 25 hornet. I have some cases charged with RE-7 I want to try.
I checked with Pacific die and reamer about case length specks for the cartridge and according to their drawing the brass I got with the rifle may be a bit too short. Not sure though because they show two different 25 hornets one standard and one non standard and the one I checked was the standard. I was trying to avoid it but I guess the only way to be sure is to cast the chamber. If the brass is too short that is another area to look at for accuracy improvement.
I have a custom 1902 smokeless rolling block that I had put on a 38-55 barrel I had picked up at a gun show. I told the man that I had install the barrel that I wanted the chamber length to be cut to the 375 Winchester length because I wanted to be able to use cheaper 30-30 brass. After getting the rifle back and shooting it with the reformed 30-30 brass and having fits with the inconsistent accuracy at one point I even laid a hack saw to the barrel out of pure spiteful revenge but managed to contain my anger. Good thing too because once I figured out the problem I have since won a postal match with that rifle and Jr. in his under six foot form used it to good effect on long range buffalo gong shoots.
The problem as I later found was that the GUN SMITH I went to later told me he sent it out for the work because he couldn't cut the right thread for the roller. It had been a High Wall barrel in a previous life. He had not given instruction on the chamber length and since the barrel was already stamped 38-55 he cut the chamber to 38-55 length. After I started using the correct length brass that rifle settled down and became a good consistently accurate shooter and a winner of matches. Now with this rifle I think I may be looking at something similar. The person I got the rifle from obviously did not have a handle on making the rifle perform as evidenced by other issues that arrived with it so this could be another.
I guess if I am to realize the full potential of the rifle I am going to have to cast the chamber and fit brass more precisely to it.
Right now though to answer your question again yup its way to cold for anything other than research sitting here at the computer a few feet away from the wood stove.

Maybe so , could be like getting all new and more accurate rifles. The hacksaw thingy was actually what I thought might be a remedy for the inconsistent accuracy. Before I found out about the chamber the only thing I could think of that might be causing the inconsistent accuracy was with barrel harmonics. Even after being shortened the barrel is still 32" so bullet dwell time is long at the low velocity I load them to. I wanted to keep the long sight radios because a barely legal barrel length would relegate it to scope only for sights but I like it with the old Parts Unknown sight I use on it. Having enough life experience to know not to make important decisions in anger I refrained from use of the hack saw as a remedy.
Right now I am playing catch up with casting orders. As I type I am waiting for the casting shed to warm up with the fire I just got going in the wood stove there . I whimped out for a couple days but now have to brave to cold and get caught up. This is when we go through wood fast with three stoves going in the house and one in the casting shed.

Since my last installment here I have been insanely busy with orders. Our cold weather left and is now back again but not quite so bad as last time. I did manage to get some shooting done while the temps were better. Unfortunately I made no gains and will have to repeat some the shooting. The reason is that some of the powders and loads I had rejected as poor were due to barrel leading that I didnt discover until accuracy became terrible. Because of the possible progressive build up of leading I have to go all the way back to where I know the barrel was clean. At this point I can not say for sure if the leading was progressive or if it was caused solely by one of the several new powders tried since the last successes. The only way to be sure is to shoot them over again and clean between powders and groups. I had been running a dry patch through the barrel between groups and had not noticed any issues with the patch dragging on a leaded area.
When I first got the rifle before I shot it I cleaned lead out of the barrel but that fouling was just ahead of the chamber for a few inches. This time it was about six inches back from the muzzle. The only things I can think of that would cause that are either lube deficiency which I will jus cancel out knowing the efficiency of our lube. The other thing is that since I have been going for nearly 100% case volume loads with progressively slower powders I very likely have exceeded the velocity limits of the very soft alloy. The fact that the leading is near the muzzle may indicate that that is the point that velocity becomes excessive for the alloy strength from the continued push of the slower burning powders continuing to accelorate the bullet all the way down the barrel. It may well be that only one of those powders is responsible but there is no way to tell without shooting them again and insuring the barrel is clean each time.
This whole experience got me to thinking about the two different breach seating systems that were commonly used when this type of shooting was originally being done. There was the type of lever system that I am using to introduce the bullet into the barrel from the breach end and there was also the Pope system that introduced the bullet from the muzzle through a false muzzle starter. I can now see from this experience that at least in this case the Pope system may have been superior because in seating the bullet from muzzle to breach there would have been a positive feel of the fouling when the bullet reached that point in the barrel.
I have an idea that one of the last powders tried deserves all the blame and moving forward I will not work at load development without  using a chronograph. Weather was crappy and I was anxious to get started with the rifle but I now think that the chronograph would have told the story of at what velocity things started to go bad. Knowing that number and staying below it should be a big help in preventing the problem with the soft alloy bullets. I could make harder bullets but then there is greater resistance to seating bullets fully into the barrel. I guess there will be a compromise found there eventually between ease of bullet seating and acceptable velocity. This is going to take longer than I thought but the search is the pleasant spice.