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Post by shootist---Gary on Nov 20, 2020 19:48:18 GMT -7
Daniel, I am getting ready for our whitetail deer season that opens Nov.30. My question for you, or anyone that has reloaded your 405 & 500 gr. cast bullets to be used in my original 1884 Trapdoor Springfield. I have been reading about loading IMR 4198 smokeless powder, instead of 2F Goex. It is supposed to be a safe & accurate burning powder that burns cleanly. My hunting area would not involve shooting any more than 350 yds., & probably 100 to 200 yds. What would you recommend as an accurate powder charge, & will I need to add filler to the case? I thought that being that I will be living in my van for maybe up to a week, if I shoot the rifle, it won't be as critical to clean immediately, as with black powder loads. Thanks for any help, as I want to get about 30 or 40 rounds loads next week, & get it sighted in.
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Post by Bullshop on Nov 21, 2020 11:09:35 GMT -7
G'Day Gary
I am not sure what you are shooting but I think perhaps a trapdoor. There are generally three different groups of load data for the 45-70 cartridge each treated as if it were three different cartridges. The reason is chamber pressures and each group is identified by its maximum allowable pressure. Roughly stated they are 20, 40, and 60 thousand PSI.
I say roughly because those are generally about the pressure limits for each group being #1 trapdoor -- low end, #2 lever guns --- mid range, and #3 strong bolt action and strong single shots --- top end.
No matter which group your rifle is in either IMR or Hodgdons 4198 will be a good choice because it is a very flexible powder as to the range of pressures it will cover nicely and will shoot clean at the low end and at the same time deliver very near top end achievable velocity.
These are the numbers and figures but in reality the cartridge is seldom loaded beyond or even to max mid range pressures. The reason is recoil. Long long ago when I felt the need to get every last FPS possible out of the cartridge I was working with a Siamese Mauser conversion to 45-70. I reached top max listed load in the then current Speer book which I believe was about 63gn Reloader #7 with the Speer 405gn FP for a listed 2200 fps. In my rifle this load indicated moderate pressure for the platform so living just over the divide from Lewiston I contacted the Speer tech that developed the load data and explained what I was doing and that I felt that with my rifle I was not near max pressure for the Mauser action. He confirmed my suspicion stating the the data was ended not for max pressure but for max recoil in that he simply could not tolerate any more abuse in the load development His test rifle was also a Siamese Mauser conversion and he told me that his pressure data never exceeded 38,000 psi.
So with that in mind consulting my 1970 vintage Lyman book it shows two sets of data one as 1873 Springfield and on as 1886 Winchester. The data for 4198 is as follows,
For trapdoor
4198 -- 405gn bullet ---start 28gn @ 1130 fps --- max 33gn @ 1353
for 1886
4198 --- 405gn bullet --- start 33gn @ 1336 fps --- max 38gn @ 1557 fps
This book does not give data for a 500gn but shows a 482gn and a 552gn. Loads for a 500gn can be extrapolated from that data if needed. If I look through the many other books I have available I can likely find some for something closer to 500gn weight.
Please let me know if I can be of further assistance. I will much enjoy being a small part of your adventure.
Friend Daniel
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Post by shootist---Gary on Nov 22, 2020 16:39:04 GMT -7
Daniel, I just found a posting on The Firearms Forum, from Oct. 2015, that lists loadings for Trapdoor Actions, from the Speer # 14 manual. It shows for IMR 4198 powder & using a 500 gr. cast bullet, minimum load is 28 gr. (1244 fps), & maximum load is 32 gr. (1382 fps). I had a hard time finding a 1lb. bottle. Neither Bass Pro, Fin,Fur, feather, or the nearest Cabela's had any. A small local (20 miles away) gun shop had 1 bottle, so I wasted no time getting there. $29.89 a pound. I think I'll start at 29 or 30 gr. to see what happens. Oh, by the way, last night, about 3 miles from home, 2 does ran out in front of my van, & I hit 1, & ran over it. It busted the left side of the grille out, also the parking / turn signal ass'y out. I turned around & couldn't find it. I went back this morning, & found it half submerged in the water of the ditch alongside of the road. Being as the head, mouth & nose were under water, & not knowing how much open meat is under water, being farm field runoff contaminates things, I left it lay. I wish I could have found it last night before the rain came. I figure about $600 or more damage, just for parts. As the van is a 2004, I only carry liability insurance on it. I'll patch it up & put something in for a turn signal somehow until spring Thanks for your loading info, as I still have some of your 405 gr. bullets left, so will also load some of them too. Stay safe, & good luck on your hunting.
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Post by Bullshop on Nov 22, 2020 20:18:33 GMT -7
Sorry to hear about the van. Hope it doesn't put off your hunt. Got my elk this year right from the reapers roost. Didn't have to leave home. Still have two deer tags. Have been watching a couple nice bucks from the roost. Had a chance last evening at 400 yards but passed because I had a 300 yard rifle. Sat with my long range rifle this evening but he appeared about 1500 yards so I passed again. Still have until the 29th. There has been several lesser animals within 50 yards but I am holding out.
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Post by shootist---Gary on Dec 8, 2020 23:32:17 GMT -7
Daniel, I sat in the edge of a woods, just out of a harvested soy bean field for 4 1/2 days in temperatures from 28 to 43 degrees last week, & never saw a deer. Sunday late afternoon, while riding my John Deere lawn tractor hauling my stuff back up to the van, 2 sets of tracks were headed south in my morning's northbound tire tracks. one set was very large. They must have watched me go by, heading to my blind, then came out & went south across a grassy field, crossed the road into public hunting area, but nobody saw them. Oh well 2 more days, a week before Christmas, then 4 days of ML in early January. I really wanted to send one of your 500 gr. lead pills into some venison, but it wasn't to be this time.
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Post by Bullshop on Dec 9, 2020 8:32:23 GMT -7
Well my friend in hunting there is still pleasure in disappointment. That's hunting !
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