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Post by missionary on Nov 12, 2020 6:03:19 GMT -7
I would be giving MGM a call about a 30" barrel. Or how about a Henry SS (or other) with a custom 30". A donner SS 20 gauge with a 30" stub barrel fitted ?
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Post by todddoyka on Nov 12, 2020 14:19:04 GMT -7
The 6mm BRM is basically a necked up improved Zipper case. I think right now the 6 BRM in the Brown 97 D single shot is the most accurate rifle I have. My velocity issue is not one of hitting targets the issue is bullet action on impact . At some point with any cartridge there is a range at which there is no bullet upset and with the long slender pointed bullets used for long range below their optimum velocity range the bullets tend to just pencil through with little energy transfer unless bone is hit. The difference the added 300 fps over what I am getting with the 6 BRM would extend the performance range of bullets to perhaps another 150 yards. That would extend the useful range of my 6 BRM which I feel is a 300 yard cartridge to 450 yards. I would estimate that gain in range to be about 25 to 30 percent of my shots or maybe simpler to say that 25 to 30 percent of my shots are over 300 yards. As winter progresses and snow gets deeper and cover more sparse that percentage will increase. What I want is the ballistic performance of my 6mm/06 in a light weight package but that is a tall order. I see that MGM offers the 6mm/06 but as I earlier said with that cartridge the ballistic performance is dependent on a long barrel and long pencil thin barrels seldom deliver the required accuracy needed for long shots but I am tempted. If a barrel like that would cluster its first two shots close together I would be good with that. Even if it would consistently put one shot from a cold barrel to the same POI I could live with that because in coyote hunting a second shot is usually just a poke and hope anyway. Its that first shot that counts. i did not that about 6mm brm case, thanks!!!!! 6mm creedmoor? its basically a 243 win. people who have a 6mm say its more accurate than the 243. i used to a 6.5 creedmoor(15", 16.25 and 23" mgm heavy factory barrels) for deer. a 120gr nosler and 140gr hornady sst were going about 1/2" at 100 yards(5 shots/bench). i shouldn't have sold them, but......... i have over 100 (i think 200 but i'm not sure)cases of 6.5cm that are just sitting there. i would just give them to you. anyway, the 6cm will do 3000fps+ from 55-100gr bullet with a 24" barrel. i use 23" barrel mostly likely because it is different. but if i stand the encore and the win m94 up, the encore is shorter by about one inch. i used to like lightweight rifles but they lost accuracy if i were trying 5 rapid shots. i always did 3 shot group(under 1" at 100 yards) with a lightweight rifle. load-data.nosler.com/load-data/6mm-creedmoor/
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Post by Bullshop on Nov 12, 2020 16:30:18 GMT -7
I really only need one shot to go consistently in the same place each time from a cold barrel. The shots can be hours apart as long as each shot from a cold barrel consistently goes into the same tight group. Five shot groups are fine but need to be spaced out over time say 1 hour intervals between shots taking 4 hours to fire a 5 shot group. If a thin barrel can group well with that criteria I would be happy with it. In the game of coyote hunting one shot kills rule simply because there are very few of any other kind.
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Post by Bullshop on Nov 12, 2020 19:04:33 GMT -7
If I were to consider going to a totally different rifle for a light weight walk about rifle I would be looking at the Howa mini action. It is offered from the factory chambered for the 6.5 Grendel. The 6mm arc is simply a necked down 6.5 Grendel. I have been watching but they are not yet offering it in the 6mm arc. I dont want to go through the added expense of re-barreling from a Grendel but I will keep watching to see if they will offer their mini action in the 6mm arc. That reduced size Howa mini action should make into a very nice light weight potentially accurate package.
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Post by Junior on Nov 13, 2020 0:36:39 GMT -7
The 6mm arc case has less capacity then the grendel does.
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Post by Bullshop on Nov 13, 2020 8:30:34 GMT -7
I believe the reason for that is the cartridge maximum OAL and the fact that the arc was designed around a specific very long very high BC bullet design. The entire design purpose of the arc cartridge was maximum range potential from standard AR platform avoiding the added weight of the 308 size AR platform. The Howa mini action would have the same length restrictions as the standard AR platform.
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Post by missionary on Nov 13, 2020 10:07:34 GMT -7
How much does that Howa mini action rifle weigh ?
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Post by Bullshop on Nov 13, 2020 11:10:17 GMT -7
Not sure on that but it is a substantial weight reduction on par with the CZ mini Mauser action in comparison to a standard model 98 action. The Howa 1500 has never gotten the credit they deserve as a base for an accurate build. They have changed importers over the years to include Weatherby and Smith& Wesson Charles Daily and others and that fact seems to have generated the impression of low quality. That is far from the truth as the Howa 1500 has always been as close to a blue printed action as you could get from a mass produced factory action. The Howa is made in Japan and like others from Japan like Miroku make quality firearms.
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Post by todddoyka on Nov 13, 2020 21:17:35 GMT -7
How much does that Howa mini action rifle weigh ?) 6lbs for a 22" standard barrel and 6.4 lbs for a 20" heavy barrel. i was going to get a 7.62x39 and the howa mini was on my short list. the cz 527 carbine is number 1 on my list to purchase(which will be years and years and years away ). it is about 6lbs. Dan, what weight will the bullet be in the 6mm arc?
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Post by missionary on Nov 14, 2020 5:11:21 GMT -7
So the Howa Mini and the CZ Mini are some what cousins in the idea. Maybe with slight weight difference. Some where the thinker was just not connecting at all. Have to start looking at the Howa rifle brand.
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Post by todddoyka on Nov 14, 2020 9:37:44 GMT -7
the big reason for me was the wooden stock. cz has one, howa doesn't. if i were to buy a howa, then i have to re-stock it with wood that costs $200+/- more. so i was best off of getting the cz(which i don't have).
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Post by Bullshop on Nov 14, 2020 10:23:36 GMT -7
I believe the 6mm arc was designed around the 108gn Hornady bullet. If that is not correct then one very similar with very high BC. They started with the bullet or rather the BC they wanted and using the length restrictions of the AR designed the cartridge that gave the desired minimum velocity. They had to tweak the case dimensions to achieve the ballistic goal. As for me the synthetic stock is preferred for weight and stability. I like wood too especially on the classics but this rifle would be all for function not looks kind of like an ugly nurse, not much to look at but when needed ready willing and able.
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Post by missionary on Nov 14, 2020 14:33:37 GMT -7
Over at gun broke # 884012631 is a Howa Legacy Mini EXCL Light 223. Black plastic AR carbine stock bolt rifle. Is that the thing ? Armadillos lock better !
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Post by Bullshop on Nov 14, 2020 15:19:49 GMT -7
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Post by missionary on Nov 15, 2020 5:44:17 GMT -7
I should have looked a little further.
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Post by Junior on Nov 15, 2020 12:11:06 GMT -7
Just go buy a Ruger American. They are built with a barrel nut like the savage rifles, and triple locking lugs like the 788. Extremely accurate rifles. Kind of cheesy, yes, but very accurate and light weight. This one is a 223 and I picked it up for under 300 bucks. They offer it in 6.5 grendel. I’m sure they will offer it in 6mm arc if it takes off. http://instagram.com/p/CHlyaKdJ9te
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Post by Bullshop on Nov 15, 2020 12:29:36 GMT -7
I have no objection to that as long as the weight is comparable. Does that model Ruger come with the break from the factory ? Also curious about what twist rate they used for that model in 223 ?
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Post by todddoyka on Nov 15, 2020 13:16:31 GMT -7
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Post by missionary on Nov 15, 2020 14:46:31 GMT -7
Why do they need that muzzle brake ? Or is it just a "thread protector"?
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Post by Junior on Nov 15, 2020 15:28:35 GMT -7
It does not come with a muzzle brake from the factory, however you can get ones similar to mine for 20-30 bucks on eBay. Ruger may offer a model with a brake from the factory though. It’s not really needed on the bolt gun. I had this brake that I kept off of my AR from when I was shooting competitions. It was a expensive brake, nearly 200 bucks. I won it off of a prize table at a 3 gun New Years match in Idaho.
This rifle has a 1/8” twist and weight all decked out is about 8 lb. this is also a first gen rifle with the plastic rotary mag. They work find, and they can still be found new for quite a bit less then the new gen rifles that use AR mags.
The triggers on these rifles can also be made excellent with just a little work. Lots of YouTube videos on how to remove the blade safety and work the trigger over.
That 300 blackout I had when I was there was the same model rifle. These rifles have a huge following because of how accurate they are, and lots of people use them in long range matches now. Best rifle on the market for the money in my humble opinion.
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Post by Junior on Nov 15, 2020 15:31:18 GMT -7
I’m actually using a Winchester 94 30/30 loaded with accelerators for my calling gun right now.
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Post by Bullshop on Nov 15, 2020 17:04:20 GMT -7
For my purpose even on a low recoiling caliber the break aids in spotting hits. Since I hunt alone that is important.
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Post by Junior on Nov 15, 2020 17:10:51 GMT -7
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Post by todddoyka on Nov 15, 2020 18:52:24 GMT -7
For my purpose even on a low recoiling caliber the break aids in spotting hits. Since I hunt alone that is important. make sure to use your hearing protecting.
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Post by Junior on Nov 15, 2020 20:03:18 GMT -7
I have found hearing protection doesn’t matter that much if you are already deaf.
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Post by todddoyka on Nov 15, 2020 20:14:22 GMT -7
I have found hearing protection doesn’t matter that much if you are already deaf. my dad has one on his contender and i had an adjustable muzzle brake on my savage m116 that i got rid of.
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Post by Junior on Nov 15, 2020 20:22:52 GMT -7
When I was a kid, dad had this Ruger 45 convertible with like. 3” barrel on it. I must have been about 7 or 8 the first time he let me shoot a pistol, and he handed me that Ruger with the 45 acp cylinder. First shot went off and I realized this was way different then the 22 hornet I was used to shooting, but I didn’t want dad to think I was a wimp so went ahead and kept shooting with him, But man my ears want for about a week after that.
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Post by Bullshop on Nov 16, 2020 8:57:05 GMT -7
Sorry about that Jr. I really am as I should have been more attentive to your protection. If it had been a physical threat I was on it but I just didn't recognize it as a serious threat. When I was young and in the work force ear protection was something we didn't think much about. Now that I am about deaf I realize the folly. All those years I spent running a saw and jumping out of helicopters not to even mention about a million rounds fired has taken its tole. For what its worth I do wear muffs now when shooting and I hope you do too.
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Post by Junior on Nov 16, 2020 11:32:23 GMT -7
I usually do. Wasn’t trying to bring it up in a bad way, just sharing a memory
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Post by todddoyka on Nov 16, 2020 14:39:57 GMT -7
when i joined the army i learned about hearing protection or ear plugs. when we(basic training) were on the range, ear plugs were a must have. then when i got home, i got ear muffs. i used ear plugs at my job long ago(i was fitter at johnstown railroad freight cars). i had to go to hearing test once a year, and i failed. then i go to ear doctor(paid for by the company) and he pulls out about a "pound" of ear wax from my right ear and about 2 "pounds" of my left ear !!! i'm just one of those guys that has a over abundance of ear wax. now its twice a year that i have my ears cleaned out from my doctor.
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