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Post by todddoyka on Nov 8, 2020 13:46:14 GMT -7
i should've kept my mouth shut. but noooooo i says. i have to buy it just because..........not that i needed another piece of junk that needs fixing. i still have to do my 93 mauser barrel!!!!! not to mention the 93 and 95 Mauser's and the krag actions??? don't i already have enuff? my guess is no. my......ah, "friend" HAD a 1898 spr armory in 30-40 krag (notice the quotation marks and HAD) that he wants to sell. he got it from his grandfather who died quite a few years ago. my "friend" hunts when he can, but work takes him all over the country. anyway, he told me to expect a beat up rifle and that would need loving care. alot of loving care. so what do i say? BRING IT TO ME!!!!!!!!!! well....he did and he walked away $125 richer.
the stock work needs refinished, the surface rust on the rifle needs a whole lota vinegar or evaporust. trigger guard, lower band, swing swivel and the butt plate needs a bath also. the interior barrel looks like it needs a cleaning too. the rifle came with no sights. i haven't taken it apart, other than the bolt isn't cracked and the cartridges feeds nicely. and the trigger is a 2 stage man's dream. you take up the "slop" of the trigger and then its 4 or 5 lbs till you hear the firing pin is released. ahhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!! the insides are "clean", meaning rust free. the bolt is as smooth as it ever was.
should i have bought? of course not!!!! anybody else would throw it in the scrap pile. but not me!!!! i'll give her love and maybe someday, she'll give it back.
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Post by Bullshop on Nov 8, 2020 16:35:59 GMT -7
Your getting sleepy, sleepy ----- 405 Jess ---- 405 Jeeeeeeees When ever you hear the word bullet you will have an overwhelming desire to send the rifle to Jess re-boring. When I snap my fingers you will awaken. snap So Tod when will you need more of those things I make ? You know the BULLETS
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Post by todddoyka on Nov 8, 2020 22:33:07 GMT -7
as soon as i get done with my son's 93 mauser, then i will have a big choice. 1. 22 hornet 2. 9.3 krag 3. 405 jess .
i really want a 1898 spr armory in 22 hornet. i have two actions and their for a 22 hornet and 405 jess. the 9.3 krag should be a brush hunter's dream. i'll be giving jess a call(when i'm done with 93 mauser) and see if he could rebore it to 9.3 krag. the outside dia of the barrel is .665". i "think" that jess will leave .250"? over the bore size(i could and most probably be wrong). on the 9.3 krag, .665" - .366" = .299". on the 405 jess, .665" - .412" = .253". but i'll have to see.
.125" => bore size <= .125"
right now, if i had a choice, it would be a 9.3 krag. then a 22 hornet and finally a 405 jess. ugggghhhhhh i still have another 93 mauser and 95 mauser!!!
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Post by missionary on Nov 9, 2020 1:53:05 GMT -7
Our "Quest" began with the simple 41 mag. A Dan Wesson. Still supremely accurate after near 40 years with us. Then a lever action to go along on the walks. Marlin .. The only choice on the open Market. Then out comes the Dan Wesson 414 Supermag. 200 - 300+ FPS over the .41 mag ! And naturally we needed a lever rifle for that also ! At first that was going to be a major project and far more $$ than our budget could support. But after some years there on the JES web sight was the notice. Now boring to .405 / .412 groove ! Another phone call to JES after the already growing herd of 375's. Off went a rusty bore Marlin 36A. A month later working through the cycling issues. Then the loads with a 265 FNGC all purpose puncher and up to 305 grains for big dreams.
And of course finally the 405 JES ! Why did he not just start there ? So now the brain keeps asking about a 405 JES revolver to go along with the fine Marlin 336 that is a real powerhouse of caliber 41 fun.
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Post by Bullshop on Nov 9, 2020 7:34:24 GMT -7
405 Jess revolver sounds like too much 41 fun. Something in the revolver weight range of the 5" Ruger Redhawk in 41 mag is about perfect I become a flinching fool with a heavy recoiling handgun. My mind goes to the pain and bloody knuckles of each shot and not where it should be on the trigger pull. My most recent revolver a 5" Ruger Bisley flat top in 44 special is about max for me that I can consistently shoot well and maintain my concentration where it should be on the trigger pull and not on the pain. My top end load of 17.5gn of 296 with a custom 285gn wfn-gc bullet is right at the limit for me. The light loads with about 4 to 5gn bullseye or 7 to 8gn Unique or something similar with a 240 to 250gn bullet are fun, accurate, and pain free
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Post by todddoyka on Nov 9, 2020 11:05:30 GMT -7
i have to agree with ya Dan, the 405 jess revolver will really make my hand shake!!! although, if given to me, i'd fire it. i don't have anything 41 cal, rifle or revolver. i do have a ruger sbh in 44 mag(4 5/8" barrel). a couple(or several) of years ago i bought 44 spl starline brass and that was all i needed. 7.5gr of unique under a 250gr penta hp or a 255gr Kieth-type boolit is the one(or two ). i've killed 2 or 3 deer at 20 -30 yards(with the left hand, i won't talk about the right hand, he's just along for the ride ). yes, i am a wuss. as long as the gun doesn't bother me(like recoil!!!!!), i'll use wussy loads . when i was 20ish yo, i used a ruger srh in 44 mag(7.5" barrel) and 240gr xtp with a hot load of win296( thank God for the ruger!!!!). i killed 6 or 7 deer at about 30-50 yards. i killed one doe that was about 120+/-yards away from me. i didn't have anything like a laser range finder, so i stepped it off. it was easy to find, she dropped right in her tracks. i think that the bullet didn't expand much, it went thru the shoulder, the heart and lungs and it went out(don't remember if it broke 1 rib or 2). but i was strong back then, ME SMASH and all the other good stuff(i was a hellion to say the least). now if i scrape my forearm, i have to get band aid, thanks warfarin, just thanks(note, this was said sarcastically).
i know the feeling when it comes to 41 cal, mines 44. 44 spl, 44 mag and 444 marlin. but the 9.3 is coming on strong.
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Post by missionary on Nov 9, 2020 11:18:28 GMT -7
I guess the only revolver produced that would be possible in 405 JES is the BFR long cylinder that personally I think are as ugly as a revolver an be. We have a BFR in 475 Linebaugh and those are great ! Even the Dan Wesson Supermags are good to look at and hold. But long cylinder BFRs......UGH !!!
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Post by todddoyka on Nov 9, 2020 13:15:41 GMT -7
I guess the only revolver produced that would be possible in 405 JES is the BFR long cylinder that personally I think are as ugly as a revolver an be. We have a BFR in 475 Linebaugh and those are great ! Even the Dan Wesson Supermags are good to look at and hold. But long cylinder BFRs......UGH !!! before my stroke, i was saving up to get a john linebaugh with a 5" barrel in 500L. i had a hard time of the 475L or the 500L but i liked the psi of the 500L. add to the fact, i just like 50-70 gov. but i had a stroke and plans for that, went out the window. now i have the 500L in a 23" mgm heavy factory barrel(tc encore). the 450gr lfn (bought them at a gun show, $100/500 pcs) and hs-6 that goes around 1200+fps. its my bear rifle and sometimes deer rifle. i haven't shot anything with it yet, but boy does it smack on the 50 yard target. i dimly remember a 45-70 BFR(? it might have been something else) in a gun show once and all i could think of was the (lever action)recoil it must have. i did a 45-70 in a handi rifle(i own a different one now) with ruger #1 loads, alright i did three, and the recoil was FIERCE. the load did open the action after it was shot. after 3 times, i was done with the recoil and now i load trapdoor loads.
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Post by Junior on Nov 9, 2020 13:49:48 GMT -7
Interesting. I always thought I inherited my love for heavy recoiling magnum handguns. About all i shoot from my 44 mags is 300gn heavy loads. I’ve been wanting to get a 454 but funds are being held onto until after this election mess is over.
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Post by missionary on Nov 9, 2020 13:53:39 GMT -7
I was debating the same. I also like anything in caliber .50... But a BFR in 475 LB came up for sale for $650 and settled the discussion. I am very pleased with it. A 350-400 grain cast at 950 - 1000 FPS is pleasant to shoot in that beefy revolver and puts a big wang on whatever it slams into.
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Post by Bullshop on Nov 9, 2020 16:03:36 GMT -7
I once had a Linebaugh conversion on the Ruger Bisley in 500 Linebaugh. It was too much gun for me. The factory Ruger sights did not have enough sight adjustment to go from light to heavy loads. The revolver was equipped with a screw on muzzle break. The POI change between with the break and w/o the break was about 5 ft at 25 yards. I could shoot it with light loads but the sights didn't have enough adjustment to get me on target at 25 yards. I ended up trading for several other guns and then sold them all. For my field revolver I went back to my Ruger Bisley 45 Colt and this was in Alaska. While guiding I used the 45 to drop a wounded caribou in its tracks. The bull was about 45 yards going straight away. My load was with a 300gn Saeco Keith type bullet that chronographed 1000 fps 10'' from the muzzle. MY packer told me he saw the hide on the chest stretch out and a puff of hair. The 300gn bullet with a mv of 1000 fps had penetrated the caribou bull lengthwise. That is a load I can shoot well and apparently plenty of penetration for about any situation I might get myself into. Being old now my sticky situations are less frequent so I will just stick with the Bisley 45 Colt for a field revolver.
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Post by todddoyka on Nov 9, 2020 23:11:54 GMT -7
I once had a Linebaugh conversion on the Ruger Bisley in 500 Linebaugh. It was too much gun for me. The factory Ruger sights did not have enough sight adjustment to go from light to heavy loads. The revolver was equipped with a screw on muzzle break. The POI change between with the break and w/o the break was about 5 ft at 25 yards. I could shoot it with light loads but the sights didn't have enough adjustment to get me on target at 25 yards. I ended up trading for several other guns and then sold them all. For my field revolver I went back to my Ruger Bisley 45 Colt and this was in Alaska. While guiding I used the 45 to drop a wounded caribou in its tracks. The bull was about 45 yards going straight away. My load was with a 300gn Saeco Keith type bullet that chronographed 1000 fps 10'' from the muzzle. MY packer told me he saw the hide on the chest stretch out and a puff of hair. The 300gn bullet with a mv of 1000 fps had penetrated the caribou bull lengthwise. That is a load I can shoot well and apparently plenty of penetration for about any situation I might get myself into. Being old now my sticky situations are less frequent so I will just stick with the Bisley 45 Colt for a field revolver. i didn't know that linebaugh was equipped with a screw on break. i guess i never gave a thought of light and heavy loads. before my stroke, i would go for heavy loads. now its all about the light loads. i looked up the 450gr lfn, it is a 16.5gr of hs-6 that goes 1235fps avg. for a 500L rifle, its a light-medium load, mostly light.
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Post by Bullshop on Nov 10, 2020 7:32:06 GMT -7
I got that gun at a gun show in Anchorage from a fellow named Kal Papus. Kal is a regular contributor to the Black Powder Cartridge News magazine. I traded him a 50-90 Sharps for it when we had a shop in Alaska and we were dealers for C Sharps. At the time they were offering a great pricing deal if you bought at least 5 rifles at a time. John Schoffstall the owner was having a serious money crunch because his wife was seriously injured when struck by the vehicle of an uninsured driver, The Linebaugh conversion was a great revolver but like I said was too much gun for me. The sights were only adjustable to top end loads which left out the use of light loads which is what I most often shoot in any gun even as small as a 22 hornet. I see the prices on the original Linebaugh guns are now insanely high but that is normal with the passage of time. I see also that the Sharps rifles that we sold new at $1,000.00 are also now just as insanely high so just normal since we are 30 years older now than then. Anyway to each his own and I am not ashamed to say the 500 Linebaugh was too much gun for me. Admitting that fact was the big hurdle and admitting the fact that painfully hard recoiling revolvers has a lasting negative effect on my overall trigger control and accepting those facts and making adjustments to accommodate them has greatly improved my revolver shooting. At my age it no longer matters what anyone else thinks or has to say about those truths. I am quite comfortable with who, what, and where I am. If today I was asked what is my favorite revolver I would have to say it is my Ruger Bisley 357 magnum. This is a heavy 357 being on the same frame and having the same unfluted cylinder with the same diameter as the Bisley 44 magnum it easily handles loads that my Marlin 357 balks at. Even with its heaviest loads it is easy to shoot and those heavy loads with a 200gn bullet and a 100% load density of H-110 or WW-296 will cover a lot of practical application. With light 38spl target wad cutter type loads its like shooting a BB gun so concentration is where it should be on the trigger not the pain. I recently measured the cylinder wall thickness on three Ruger Bisley revolvers a 44, a 45, and the 357 and found that the cylinder walls on the 357 are a full .090" thicker than on the 45. The Ruger large frame 45's are touted as being able to safely handle much heavier than standard 45 Colt loads and in most load data books are in a special group listed as for Ruger and TC Contender pistols only. Add to that an additional .090" cylinder wall thickness and you have an idea of just how stout the Ruger Bisley in 357 mag is. So for my revolver shooting the requirements are easy shooting, accurate, and adequate power for the application and all three of the Ruger Bisley revolvers I enjoy shooting the 357, the 44 spl, and the 45 Colt offer those qualities and I guess is why they reside at the same location as do I.
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Post by todddoyka on Nov 10, 2020 9:48:17 GMT -7
after my stroke, any revolver, esp the ones named linebaugh, were too much for me. i now own one, ruger sbh in 44 mag. i have shot the 44 mag for about 2 -3 years, but i shoot the 44 spl monthly. i can shoot the 500L rifle(tc encore with a high plains gunstock and limbsaver pad & 23" MGM barrel) and hs-6. i tried 2400, but hs-6 won on the accuracy department. the recoil it generates is slightly less than a 30-06 with 180gr factory loads. i did have a skinner aperture sight but i replaced it with a 2-7x leopold.
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Post by Bullshop on Nov 10, 2020 12:43:57 GMT -7
OK so Tod now that thread drift has taken us all over the map I guess its a good time to ask this question I have for you. If you were to put together an encore rifle that would be carried much so weight is a major factor what type of stock would you choose.
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Post by Junior on Nov 10, 2020 14:22:49 GMT -7
The factory synthetic stocks on those encores are ridiculously light.
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Post by todddoyka on Nov 10, 2020 14:38:14 GMT -7
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Post by missionary on Nov 10, 2020 17:22:01 GMT -7
Laminates They must use 2 pounds of resign on those brutes !!
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Post by todddoyka on Nov 10, 2020 17:22:17 GMT -7
The factory synthetic stocks on those encores are ridiculously light. yes, they are. the second encore i bought had a pro line black synthetic flex tech stock. i had ordered a high plains laminate stock but in mean time, there is a 444 marlin that i have to shoot!!!! the 444 can be a mean female dog, esp when you take a 265gr hornady fn to 2300+fps. anyway, i scoped it in 3-9x swift(one of the older ones, when they are over the counter guarantee) and i proceeded to shot it. i went light load to all the way up heavy load. that is where the problems began. i loaded up a heavy load, put it on target, pulled the hammer back, looked again at the target and squeezed the trigger. i was instantly punched, real real hard. and i thought i scoped myself, it won't be bad. then i put my hand to my eye. huh, why is it sticky? ouch, don't do that? why is my left eye throbbing? why is my left eye going dark? ahhh.....i know, your a stupid idiot that...........well, i won't go there, but idiot is the the least of what i called myself. there was a half circle around the left eye. it throbbed incessantly and the blood was pouring out of it. add to the fact that left eye has swelled shut, its not so bad. after i treated myself, i noticed that the swelling was turning dark. a black and blue or a shiner, as they say. the next day, i took the swift scope off and i replaced it with a leopold 3-9x that i happened to have. i decided it was best if i leave the 444 alone till i get the new stock.
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Post by todddoyka on Nov 10, 2020 17:26:23 GMT -7
Laminates They must use 2 pounds of resign on those brutes !! i think its a pound or a pound and a half heavier than walnut. i like the laminates.
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Post by Bullshop on Nov 11, 2020 8:59:14 GMT -7
I have been using heavy guns for walkabout coyote hunting but I can just no longer tolerate the weight. I have the encore laminate stock on the 209/50 barrel. It is one heck of a stout ML but I no longer need/want it preferring more traditional ML rifles. I plan to sell the stock set and barrel and put together a light weight stalking rifle. A contender might even be better for my need but I only have the encore frame.
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Post by missionary on Nov 11, 2020 9:46:34 GMT -7
Far more rifle barrels available for the Encore.
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Post by todddoyka on Nov 11, 2020 13:06:08 GMT -7
I have been using heavy guns for walkabout coyote hunting but I can just no longer tolerate the weight. I have the encore laminate stock on the 209/50 barrel. It is one heck of a stout ML but I no longer need/want it preferring more traditional ML rifles. I plan to sell the stock set and barrel and put together a light weight stalking rifle. A contender might even be better for my need but I only have the encore frame. part of me tells you NEED the 20 vartarg. i have it in a 23" MGM heavy factory barrel in my encore. i use it on groundhogs, foxes, coyotes and crows, not to mention a soda can or two . it is my most accurate cartridge with careful hand loading(.1-.2" at 100 yards/ 5 or 10 shots). careful hand loading means trim the case, neck ream, weigh the case and bullet, primer pocket reamer, col is exactly the same............its enuff to make you go insane, i don't do that anymore. i'm more along the lines of a "sloppy" reloader. you know, as long its under the brass length, then chamfer and go, as long as you don't feel the primer then go......my "sloppy" reloads for the 20vt go about 3/8 - 1/2" give or take. one thing that i have warn you about is the wind. my furthest shot was around 325+/-yards on a groundhog. i was aiming for head but i forgot about the wind. the wind was about 10-15mph when i shot. it hit in the midsection of the groundhog(about 3 or 4" away from my aiming point). it tried to run into its hole, but 10 yards later the guts tangled its legs. then i put in a final shot. under 200 yards, the wind doesn't factor in, unless its going 30mph, then i don't hunt. over 200 yards, the wind is a factor. i use 34gr midway/midsouth hp and 18.7gr of rel7. i used to use a 32gr hornady vmax and 18.7gr of rel7(careful handloading). when i was in my "careful hand loading" stage i did a 22-250 ai with 1-8" twist in a 27" MGM heavy factory barrel. i did use a 77gr nosler bthp and i believe 41.3gr of h4831sc. at 600 yards from a bench, i could ring steel(4" circle of steel) constantly. i sold it tho because of all the "careful hand loading" and i got the 500L with a 23" MGM heavy factory barrel. i should be a MGM spokesman . they are really good!!! i go to MGM website and look at what calibers are good for you. matchgrademachine.com/chambers-list/
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Post by Bullshop on Nov 11, 2020 15:01:56 GMT -7
It will necessarily be in one of the calibers I swage for in 22, 24, or 30 caliber. I prefer 24 cal over 22 cal for coyotes even though the 223 with at least a 9" twist does a heck of a good job out to fairly long range with our swaged 70gn spt-bt 6mm seems to be dominating F-class long range target shooting right now and there are many very efficient 6mm cartridges being developed. I recently picked up a jacket maker for swaging 22 mag brass into 6mm jackets and they make a very long jacket for making heavy high BC bullets I am thinking something like the 6mm arc because of its slight case volume will get good ballistics even from a short barrel. My current coyote rifle a 6mm/06 needs a quite long barrel to better factory 6mm cartridges but that it does with at least a 26" barrel with long heavy high BC bullets and 100% density loads of very slow burning powder. I realize that a small case like the 6mm arc will not get the ballistics of the much larger case of my 6mm/06 but in order to achieve my goal of a light weight efficient rifle there has to be some compromise and that will have to be ballistic performance. The question is just how much compromise am I willing to accept.
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Post by todddoyka on Nov 11, 2020 16:46:25 GMT -7
you threw me for a loop with the 6mm arc!!! i had to google it. i guess i'm not into current cartridges, i like the old ones. anyway, i don't have experience on the 6mm calibers, other than i owned three different 243 win(rem m700 adl, bdl and m7). and this was like 25+ years ago. they were good groundhog guns, but when you go to deer size (150lbs+) targets?, its not so well. i used speer, sierra and hornady 100-105gr bullets and a 80gr barnes x bullet. i shot deer with them, but i got tired of tracking them(75-100yards after the shot). the deer didn't care if it was shot in the shoulder or behind the shoulder. the deer ran. the furthest i have ever tracked a deer is around 225 yards. the deer was hit(about 30 yards) in the shoulder, heart and lungs and goes out between the ribs. then it ran and ran and runs some more. what did you shoot it with? well, a 80gr barnes x bullet. hmmm. well, hmmm indeed. the bullet never expanded, as far as i can tell. i think the doe felt a pin prick sensation and then a loud boom. then she decided it would best if she ran. she did. i found her in a thicket of briers after i went thru, on hands and knees, 200 yards of rhododendron. that was last deer i killed with 243 win. as a matter of fact, i haven't used a 6mm/.243" bullet since. my buddy uses a rem m788 in 243 and he luvs it. he shoots deer every year with the 243. he's been doing that for 40 years. i won't tell him what i think of the 243, but he knows. the 6mm arc is in good company, the 7.62x39 has spawned some really great calibers. the 6.5 grendal and the 358 gremlin are among them. if you wanted fps to go faster, then try a 6mm creedmoor. i have experience in the 6.5 cm( 15", 16.25" and 23" MGM heavy factory barrels) and all i gots to about them is......awesome!!!!! the 6mm cm should be awesome too. but you could say the same thing with the 6mm vartarg. oh the heck with that!!! i'd use a 6mm/30-30 cartridge!!!!!!!!
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Post by Bullshop on Nov 11, 2020 17:15:03 GMT -7
oh the heck with that!!! i'd use a 6mm/30-30 cartridge!!!!!!!! Actually I have a 6mm/30-30 in the form of 6mm BRM in the Brown model 97. Its all I could ask for in accuracy but I cant get close to published velocity with it. I cant get over 2700 fps with a 100gn bullet but others claim 3000 fps. The 3000 fps is kind of the ballistic magic number with the high BC 6mm bullets. The Brown is a nice rifle and very light but I am disappointed in its limited velocity
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Post by Junior on Nov 11, 2020 20:51:55 GMT -7
If going with a single shot platform, I feel you are really limiting yourself with the shortened case of the arc. A 6mm Grendel will give slightly more case capacity and less work to make brass. If you really wanted to get creative, neck down a 35 Remington.
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Post by todddoyka on Nov 11, 2020 20:58:09 GMT -7
another loop, 6mm brm, i really outta get out!!!!! about 10+/- years ago, i wanted to buy a 6mm dasher. i thought about it and looking back on the 243 win, i shuddered and said no way!!!
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Post by Bullshop on Nov 11, 2020 21:50:06 GMT -7
The 6mm BRM is basically a necked up improved Zipper case. I think right now the 6 BRM in the Brown 97 D single shot is the most accurate rifle I have. My velocity issue is not one of hitting targets the issue is bullet action on impact . At some point with any cartridge there is a range at which there is no bullet upset and with the long slender pointed bullets used for long range below their optimum velocity range the bullets tend to just pencil through with little energy transfer unless bone is hit. The difference the added 300 fps over what I am getting with the 6 BRM would extend the performance range of bullets to perhaps another 150 yards. That would extend the useful range of my 6 BRM which I feel is a 300 yard cartridge to 450 yards. I would estimate that gain in range to be about 25 to 30 percent of my shots or maybe simpler to say that 25 to 30 percent of my shots are over 300 yards. As winter progresses and snow gets deeper and cover more sparse that percentage will increase. What I want is the ballistic performance of my 6mm/06 in a light weight package but that is a tall order. I see that MGM offers the 6mm/06 but as I earlier said with that cartridge the ballistic performance is dependent on a long barrel and long pencil thin barrels seldom deliver the required accuracy needed for long shots but I am tempted. If a barrel like that would cluster its first two shots close together I would be good with that. Even if it would consistently put one shot from a cold barrel to the same POI I could live with that because in coyote hunting a second shot is usually just a poke and hope anyway. Its that first shot that counts.
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Post by Junior on Nov 12, 2020 0:34:29 GMT -7
There are plenty of bull barrel options for the encores, but if I was worried about quick fallow up shots, so they are more then just a stab, I would go with a AR platform in 6.5 grendel. 20” barre is plenty for the cartridge, and ARs can be built pretty light, yet accurate. With the collapsible stock they can take up little room in the truck cab, and with a 10 round magazine they are not that ackward to carry.
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