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Post by todddoyka on Aug 10, 2019 12:40:52 GMT -7
i think you guys are enablers!!!!!!  i have a sporterized 98 mauser in 8x57 and next year i'm either going to rebore or rebarrel to the 400 whelen. (read web.archive.org/web/20101203...pace_myth.htm# to headspace it). i was going to do the 375 whelen but i already have a 9.3x57(.366"). and i can say that 4-something something! since 150 lbs whitetails will be its main course, i'll only go 1600-1800fps in 350-400gr fn gc. i hunt in close cover, so 60+ yards is a loooong shot, 25-35 yards is more likely. 1944 98 mauser 8x57mm    i've been thinking of taking it to JES(i like that peep sight) but i might rebarrel it to 24"(it has a 22" barrel). i doubt that extra 2" is a make or break situation, but i like the 24" over the 22". the 98 mauser NEEDS a timney trigger and i'll go with richard's stock( Richards Microfit Gunstocks ), it will be a wolverine style and either a blue coral or black walnut stock. i doubt highly that i'll get the chance to hunt elk or moose, but my sons' might and i'll just happen to have a rifle that they can use....it sounds good, don't it!!! |
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Post by missionary on Aug 11, 2019 11:50:31 GMT -7
Oh yes get the 40 Whelen ! You can get a chambered Shaw Barrel ready to screw on for about $150.
I have to wright I have never been disappointed in any caliber 40 something rifle we own. They are all fun. From a 41 mag Marlin up to the 405 Winchester they each have their place and purpose. Why even the 401 Model 1910 is a keeper.
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Post by todddoyka on Aug 12, 2019 12:47:01 GMT -7
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Post by Bullshop on Aug 13, 2019 8:24:44 GMT -7
That drawing shows only .017" diameter change between neck and body. That is not much of a shoulder especially when that diameter change has a gentle sloping angle. I have a couple loaded rounds of what I believe are 400 Whelen cartridges. These were found in a gun show box of goodies I purchased some time back. These two rounds are put up in what I believe is 30-06 brass but void of any head stamp. They are loaded with an old Ideal bullet design made for the 405 WCF. I can identify the bullet because we have the mold for same. Point is that at least on these rounds there is very little perceivable shoulder. Maybe after firing the shoulder would be more pronounced but as they are there is not much shoulder. As is for positive ignition these will be dependent on some engagement of the bullet to the lands as well as being held to the bolt face by a controlled feed type extractor. It is possible that since there is no head stamp on these that they were purchased as straight cylindrical brass never having had a pre-existing shoulder and after fire forming the shoulder would form. If you click on the picture it will enlarge.. Attachments:
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Post by Bullshop on Aug 13, 2019 11:28:05 GMT -7
You will notice that the bullets in these cartridges are seated quite far out with two lube grooves exposed outside the case neck. This long OAL may have been deliberate to engage the rifling firmly enough to hold the case head firmly against the bolt face for positive primer ignition for fire forming a more positive shoulder. With a more positive shoulder established the long OAL and heavy land engagement may not be needed so the bullet could then be seated normally. I don't know for sure as these could have been loaded before I was born for what all I know about them.
I saved them because it was an interesting find and perhaps maybe a wee bit of a tangible connection to my long term desire to have a rifle so chambered.
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Post by todddoyka on Aug 13, 2019 12:49:33 GMT -7
 these pictures are not mine, but they are 400 whelen. i think that mr. petrov had it right- "The .30-06, .25 Whelen (.25-06), .35 Whelen and .38 Whelen all have a shoulder diameter of .441. “The ORIGINAL .400 Whelen shoulder is .458". " i am talking to guy that has the "original" 400 whelen. he can use the 35 whelen case, but he prefers the 400 whelen basic. i like the picture that you posted. 400 Whelen (Petrov) - 4D Reamer Rentals
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Post by missionary on Sept 20, 2019 0:56:35 GMT -7
Good morning Todd
Did you advance any on this 400 Whelen project ??
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Post by Bullshop on Sept 20, 2019 6:54:13 GMT -7
It would be interesting to compare the drawing of the 400 Whelen you put up here with a drawing of the 411 Hawk.
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Post by todddoyka on Sept 20, 2019 9:51:29 GMT -7
unfortunately, no. it will be a couple, if not several years. i have to buy a new safe, the old safe is way over max. capacity!!!! i'm thinking of a liberty safe. and then my youngest son likes the idea of a 7x57 in a 93 spanish mauser. so my 93 spanish mauser will be rebarreled to 7 mauser, put on a mannlicher stock, trigger.......then i'll be able to start the 400 whelen. i think its a 411 hawk, i don't know about the measurements.   |
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Post by missionary on Sept 20, 2019 11:23:41 GMT -7
Well that is for sure how things happen. Something else comes along Good that you an help your son with a 7x57 on a 93 action. Will be a dandy !
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Post by Bullshop on Sept 20, 2019 13:45:00 GMT -7
OOH OOH 7x57 Ackley!!! Do you know that Parker himself stated that the 7x57 AI was one of the AI cartridges that showed the greatest ballistic improvement over the standard round. Is it becoming obvious that I have a thing for AI cartridges? Lets see now we have a 22-250 AI 9" twist, a 22-250 AI 14" twist a 30-06 AI and a 280 AI, yea I would say so. I also have a thing for the Gibbs cartridges but the case forming is a bit more complicated.
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Post by todddoyka on Sept 20, 2019 15:05:52 GMT -7
i had a 22-250 ai in 1 in 9"(or was it 7). it was accurate, i used a 62gr nosler varmageddon and a 75gr hpbt hornady match bullets in my tc encore(27" MGM barrel). i sold her and i bought a 500 linebaugh(23" MGM barrel).
mmmmmmm.......the ai sounds great, but is it too much(cup/psi) for my 93 spanish mauser(1922)?
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Post by Bullshop on Sept 20, 2019 18:28:37 GMT -7
There is no chamber pressure change between the two. One of the greatest benefits to the AI chamber is that case head back thrust is greatly reduced. Parker demonstrated this by re-chambering a Winchester 94 in 30-30 to 30-30 Ackley. For the test he removed the locking lugs from the breach. He fired the gun with locking lugs removed and it performed in normal fashion. Removing the taper from the case eliminates back thrust and the brass case clinging to the chamber walls was enough to keep the breech in place without the locking lugs. This was chronicled in his book "" Handbook for shooters and re-loaders"" by P. O. Ackley.
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Post by todddoyka on Sept 21, 2019 10:23:02 GMT -7
INSTIGATOR!!!!!!!!!!! your trying very hard to make it an ai.
not really. i had a semi custom 98 mauser 7x57 for years, before i gave to it to my oldest boy. then i bought 2 rem m7 in 7-08 and i replaced the trigger to timney. then i gave one to youngest son. boy does it shoot!!! 1/2" +/- at 100 yards(5 shots/benched) with a 139gr hornady fn with 42.0gr of imr4320. i (my gunsmith, RIP) should've built another 98 mauser in 7x57, but....dang the remmy could shoot!!!
now i have the 93 spanish mauser(7x57) and all i have to do is rebarrel it to 7x57ai(along with putting a mannlicher stock, good trigger, d&t......), it sounds to me that i have a plan!!!!
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Post by Bullshop on Sept 21, 2019 11:34:03 GMT -7
Too be sure the standard 7x57 is too a good cartridge in no way lacking. Its just that for me I appreciate the business like efficiency of the AI modification to so many factory cartridges especially the ones that are not over bore capacity. There have been a few of the old time gun nuts who's opinion I respect enough that when they speak I listen. Parker and Elmer were two of those people among a handful of others.
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Post by missionary on Sept 22, 2019 3:47:36 GMT -7
Years back I read that account of Mr. Ackley removing the lugs
I do know our 33 Winchester can be reloaded 3 maybe 4 times just neck sizing it But the 33 AI must be FL resized each time.
I will have to look at the 7x57 AI.
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Post by todddoyka on Sept 22, 2019 9:16:49 GMT -7
you had me when you ai. its not for the speed, but trimming the brass. i loathe trimming. if the 7x57ai lives up to the 22-50ai, my trimming days are done!!! not counting the first firing, the 22-250ai was about 12-15 times after i trimmed it. the 22-250(standard) was about 4 -5 times. i'll only need to get 100 cases of new 7x57. i and my young son will never need to buy 7x57 cases again.
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Post by Bullshop on Sept 22, 2019 12:31:54 GMT -7
Never say never ! Sometimes one turns into two, or more !!!
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