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Post by missionary on Apr 17, 2018 6:12:51 GMT -7
Good morning Been looking at this caliber in these lever rifles for some years. Always seemed a bit expensive just to buy and work out a load. But it still looks like a fun project. Any one here had any hands on experience with one ? Have read myself cross eyed searching about. Some good information by cast shooters who have worked their particular rifle with some loads that would be worthy of use. I would probably go my normal routine of starting with Goex 3F and a range scrap cast slug of about 255-265 grains near groove diameter. Then when that load is well established as a deadly accurate 100 yard load try to match it with smokeless loads with a fatter cast bullet sized +.001-.002 over groove diameter. So if you have gone through the fun of getting one to shoot right jab those keys. My son in Arizona may have a lead on one that was "personalized" so collectors are not interested in it yet. Mike in Peru |
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Post by Bullshop on Apr 17, 2018 8:45:55 GMT -7
Mornin Mike
I have a little experience with the cartridge in an 1886 Winchester. A client I guided for in Alaska sent me one as a gift for my service. It was a darn nice rifle but being much younger and in Alaska it seemed a disappointment to me that as an express cartridge it lacked the ability to stabilize heavier bullets than about 265gn so I didn't keep it long. I sent a throat slug to Veral Smith at LBT and at that time that was the only way Veral was making molds to custom fit from a throat slug. Things do change don't they.
He made me a very nice mold for his LFN design at about 350gn. It didn't take long to realize my folly with that as those fairly long bullets just tumbled from the muzzle of the 1886 with its slow express twist. At the time in my youth I felt that a 40 caliber should throw at least a 350gn bullet to be effective on game so totally lost interest in the 40-82.
To my understanding at the time the 40-72 was essentially the same cartridge but with faster twist so would handle heavier bullets. The 40-72 though was only offered in the Win model 1895 and I never had opportunity to try one.
When eventually I got hold of an 1885 in 405 Win I essentially had what I thought a 40 caliber big game rifle should be. The 405 Win in the strong single shot with adequate twist to handle 400+ gn bullets was more to my liking at the time and location I was in.
Looking back now I see it as another one of the big mistakes I have made in my gun trading. I don't know if I ever recorded any load data from back then but its possible I have something somewhere and Lord willing I will check.
At about the same time I had the 1886 in 40-82 I also had other 1886 and 71 rifles chambering for cartridges like the 33 Winchester, 348 Win, 375x348 Ackley, 45-90 Win, 450x348 Ackley and 50 Alaskan cartridges so maybe you can understand why at the time I felt the 40-82 somewhat anemic in power.
The 1886 is by no means a little gun and I felt that if I were carrying such a big gun it would be chambered for a big cartridge. Looking back on it now I think maybe the 33 Win was my favorite of them all.
I am old now and no longer have a need for bear bashing bone smashing cartridges so am at a place in my shooting life that I can more appreciate more mild mannered cartridges that are still very effective in the game fields but a little more friendly to my less bouncy but more bruisey body. Cartridges like the 40-82 and 33 Win seem just dandy now although I now seem to favor the extra light weight final version of the original 1886 Winchester rifle.
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Post by missionary on Apr 18, 2018 10:36:10 GMT -7
Howdy Dan Thank you for all the good stuff to read. Now I wonder if a 40-72 barrel would screw onto a pre-1899 frame ? That would be interesting to have that barrel to work with also if the 40-82 becomes ours. I will also admit to having a fondness for the 33 Winchester. At first I was wondering if I could ever get it to shoot near the barn door. Then my cases started splitting along the sides... Just a case of an undersized resizer squeezing them too much even using it to only neck size. Our maybe should write a badly oversized Winchester chamber from a badly worn out reaming tool... Would they do such a thing  My problem is I like anything in Caliber 41 (or near). 41 Colt right through the 405 Monster(a repro 1895). 40-82 just seems a good one to latch on to "if" it works out. Just have no desire to spend to much to get one. Have all sorts of caliber 41 lever rifles so easily have something that can easily duplicate what the 40-82 is capable of. Should know today if it will all work out. No matter really as I can be content either way. Those extra light weight 1886's are nice to carry about. Course any light rifle is nice. Those long barreled octagon beasts are nice to sit with cross sticks and plug unsuspecting critters as they ramble along. Carried one for much too long one day... never again. Considering turning ours into a 24" barreled half magazine. It is a repro so no loss there. |
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Post by missionary on Apr 21, 2018 6:37:58 GMT -7
Good morning
Well another 40-82 went somewhere else... We thought we were getting it for $1360 but the seller did not want our $$'s...
No issue as we have the 405 and can shoot slow cast in that.. Not a 1886 but still have the 33 Winchester take down that has a 45-70 barrel with it so I am content.
On a sideline... the 405 JES (444 Marlin necked down to .412) is one fine caliber round. Does no more than a 444 but for someone who already shoots 41 Mag or 414 Supermag all your molds get to work out in a humdinger of a cartridge.
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Post by Bullshop on Apr 21, 2018 7:35:51 GMT -7
Well brother Mike I don't consider this missed opportunity as a great loss. To be honest of all the factory chamberings that were available in the 1886 Winchester the 40-82 is not near the top of my preferences . I have much more affection for chamberings that use the standard 45-70 case and not a stretched version. In 40 caliber the 40-65 and 40-70 seem much more appealing to me because they use the standard 45-70 brass that I can get in bulk at $00.40 each as opposed to the stretched versions that run $2.00 to $3.00 each.
Currently I have no 40 cal rifles but have been feeling a need/want for one. We have such a wide selection of 40 cal bullet designs available in our line up that every time I look through the list I wonder why I don't have anything to shoot them. If I get the chance to build one it will likely be on one of the two Husky rolling blocks I have currently in 8x58 RD. My feelings at the moment is that it would become a 40-70 Sharps Bottle neck for a couple reasons. One reason is that I picked up a set of RCBS dies in 40-70 necked for really cheap. I didn't need them for anything but they were so cheap I couldn't refuse. Second is the ease of forming brass in the FL die. I have been using the 40-70 FL die as an intermediate step to form other brass such as 38-56 and 33 Win so found how simple it is to form good brass. So tell me Mike if you were in my shoes and had all the 40 cal molds and the 40-70 loading dies what would you do. Warning what you say may be used against not having a 40 cal rifle in trying to persuade Tina.
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Post by missionary on Apr 22, 2018 7:58:51 GMT -7
Good morning Brother Dan Maybe it would be safer to write what I would not do again to keep us out of trouble! Had a platoon Sarge who was fond of Saying " Troop never mess with the 1st Sergeant or the cook"! If I already had the dies for the 40-70 that would be the answer. That one has all the room you would need for slow mil-surp powder and lots of room for BP. That is a no loose situation. Plus on a SS action seating the lead long or even breach seat it gets even better. Years back I bought a box of dies (cheap) mainly to get to 3 sets. In there was all sorts of old calibers. One set is the 40-82. There are also 38-56, 41 Colt  , 40-60 and 6 or so more I have never used... but ya just never know what will fall in your lap. I could easily latch onto a 40-65... have those dies also. But definitely I would want something that would handle a 350 grainer. Using one in the 405 really got my attention how much it penetrates. It just goes on and on and... Not that I need one it is just good to know there is not many critters it would not plow through. But it really comes down to what is the purpose ? The 414 Supermag has all the power needed for deer and pigs. Your 40-70 will do that. The 405 Jess is equal to the 444 Marlin and your 40-70 would do that. The 405 Winchester I think maybe is more juicy but only due to being in a modern steel setting and not really much gain there. Brass is expensive unless you can be patient. So me unless there was a real reason not to go the 40-70 it looks like the winner to me. Only reason I got a 405 was a super deal on the rifle with dies and brass. Have molds so that was easy... Yea you need a caliber 41 to test out those slugs. We have a Remington #1 military that gets shot way to little... I can see a 405 Roller in the future... case full of 3F and 350 grainers for stopping Toyotas. |
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, 40-60 and 6 or so more I have never used... but ya just never know what will fall in your lap.