stu
Bullet Head
Posts: 9 
|
Post by stu on Nov 26, 2016 18:03:45 GMT -7
im dusting off my knight lk-93 54 caliber muzzy thats been gathering dust in the gunsafe for about 15 years. i previously set it up for new mexico rules with sabots and barnes bullets. experiencing a bit of a learning curve with the idaho rules using full size lead or lead alloy bullets. basically ive tried different combos of over the counter retail bullets until my shoulder is "hamburger" and ive not gotten it to shoot the way i think it should shoot ie.. 2"-3" groups out to 125/150 yards. shoots pretty good to 80 yards but beyond that it barely stays on a paper plate. i suspect that "tighter" bullets might shoot better. my first question would be how do i determine what size bullets i should be ordering. my second question that at higher loads, say 110gr of 777, is it crazy to think a pure lead bullet might incur some deformity that would hurt accuracy at longer distances. thanks
|
|
stu
Bullet Head
Posts: 9
|
Post by stu on Nov 26, 2016 18:25:25 GMT -7
having a little trouble adding pictures  williams peep sight ![]() ![]() |
|
stu
Bullet Head
Posts: 9
|
Post by stu on Nov 26, 2016 18:49:41 GMT -7
|
|
stu
Bullet Head
Posts: 9
|
Post by stu on Nov 28, 2016 16:55:35 GMT -7
 my son logan made a perfect shot at 50 yards yesterday. The terminal performance of a 295gr power belt with 100gr of 777 filled my head with question marks. |
|
stu
Bullet Head
Posts: 9
|
Post by stu on Nov 28, 2016 17:21:40 GMT -7
 this is where any decent bullet would have exited its just a bruise |
|
stu
Bullet Head
Posts: 9
|
Post by stu on Nov 28, 2016 17:24:44 GMT -7
 entry wound bullet basically exploded on impact only tiny shards could be recovered |
|
|
|
Post by Bullshop on Nov 29, 2016 15:45:46 GMT -7
"" my second question that at higher loads, say 110gr of 777, is it crazy to think a pure lead bullet might incur some deformity that would hurt accuracy at longer distances ""
No of course not crazy. There will be some pressure at which the bullet will be deformed and not shoot well. What exactly that pressure is only your bullet knows and when it tells you you too will know. The deformity will not be like it was kicked in the butt by a horse unless possibly if your shooting a hollow base bullet but it will be in the land cuts in the bullet being wider than the lands themselves. This is caused by the pressure exceeding the bullet alloys shear strength and the bullet not staying in time with the lands or skidding if you prefer an often used term to describe the issue. This deformity will cause several accuracy issues and is the sign that you have exceeded the pressure your bullet of what ever alloy or mono metal it may be cast from will tolerate.
The highest velocities with good accuracy using T-7 powder and pure lead conical bullets that I have received feed back on is right about 1500 fps. This from the DWT's ( dirty white boys) shooting the White system rifles and achieving very close to 1 MOA accuracy. Each individual rifle will set its own limit depending on the factors of its barrel such as rate of twist, groove depth, groove width, bore condition etc. The bullet design will also have some effect on your rifles max. Things like bullet weight, length, bearing length, drive band width, lube capacity etc. with have some effect on top velocity with top accuracy.
|
|
stu
Bullet Head
Posts: 9
|
Post by stu on Nov 29, 2016 19:50:38 GMT -7
Thanks that really paints a picture of what might be happening ballistically inside the barrel we have gotten keyholing and flyers and all manner of for accuracy I still have the question of how I determine actual bore size
|
|
stu
Bullet Head
Posts: 9
|
Post by stu on Nov 29, 2016 19:54:32 GMT -7
For ordering bullets
|
|
|
|
Post by Bullshop on Nov 30, 2016 15:20:15 GMT -7
The way to determine bore/groove diameters is to slug the barrel and measure the slug. That sounds easy but can be tricky if you have an odd number of lands. One way is to give your slug a couple tight wraps of foil then measure the wrapped slug. Subtract 4 x the foil thickness if you use 2 wraps of foil. That should get you pretty close to your groove diameter. Bore diameter will be somewhere near .008" to .010" smaller. You should try bullet diameters starting at bore diameter or slightly over going progressively about .001" larger diameter until you get the feel you are looking for seating your bullets.
That feel will be different between clean and fouled bore so shoot for the condition you will use. Some places will sell different diameters of the same bullet so you can load a clean bore with a slightly larger diameter bullet that will seat easily but stay on the powder and not move down the bore when handling the loaded rifle like when hunting. Then once a shot is fired and the bore is fouled a slightly smaller diameter will seat without undue resistance.
|
|
tom
Bullet Hole
Posts: 56
|
Post by tom on Dec 2, 2016 22:47:23 GMT -7
I could be mis reading here, but I'm thinking if modern muzzle loaders are like traditional ones, you're not supposed to remove the breach plug. If that's the case, slugging the bore could only be accomplished with a screw to pull the bullet back out. In my experience, a screw doesn't always work. Also, a tight fitting bullet in a muzzle loader would be darned tough to ram home. A pure pb bullet that's close in size should obturate when it's kicked in the pants with black powder and seal the bore pretty well.
|
|
|
|
Post by Bullshop on Dec 3, 2016 13:08:53 GMT -7
I have had a couple White in line rifles and for me removing the breach plug was a normal part of cleaning the rifle.
|
|
stu
Bullet Head
Posts: 9
|
Post by stu on Dec 6, 2016 13:24:40 GMT -7
Thanks for the the answers this has been helpful and i'm getting honed in on moving this thread to the next phase which would be buying some bullets from the bullshop and posting some pictures of targets with shot groups that we can be proud of. maybe i dont need to slug my barrel and know the bore size. however the following facts lead me there:(1) this gun DOES shoot sabots accurately out beyond 100 yards. (2) This gun DOES NOT shoot any over the counter conicals accurately beyond 100 yards. (3) back in the day Knights were rumored to have slightly oversize bores.
From the bullshop website "54 caliber - Mountain Moulds - .538 - .544 - 420 grains - FN - PB". does this mean folks are getting accuracy from barrels ranging in size from .538 to .544 or does it mean these bullets are available in different sizes between .538 and .544?
Tom--your right i wouldn't want a bullet that i couldn't cram down a dirty barrel. However some of these over the counter bullets go down the barrel soooo eeeasy its hard for me to imagine that they are engaging the rifling properly.
|
|
|
|
Post by Bullshop on Dec 6, 2016 18:55:15 GMT -7
We designed that 420gn bullet especially for the TC rifles with 1/48" twist. It is absolutely the longest length bullet that will stabilize from that twist rate.
We found quite a bit of variation in bore dimensions between different makes of rifles in 54 cal. For this reason we offer our 54 cal bullets from .538" to .544" diameters in .001" increments.
|
|
