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Post by grasshopper on Dec 16, 2023 12:14:36 GMT -7
Hope everyone is doing as well as can be expected for what some have labeled the “silly season”. I’ll go along with that by saying I believe the folks that get all caught up about this Black Friday sale or polka dot Tuesday two for one or whatever are truly silly and need to take a good look in the mirror and perhaps a personal inventory. The people who understand the true reason for the season can be seen not running about like a chicken with its head cut off but just a contented expression and they always have a joyful Merry Christmas! to greet others none of the silky happy holidays.
I digress, I was out and about early this morning having caught up on my chores and decided to look at a few of the smaller pawn shops in the area. The first one I went into had there in the rack dated 1917 in 303 British a number 1 MK3 you say? Nope! It was a Ross! It’s been quite a few years since I’ve seen a Ross, probably not since I was up in AK. This one was also interesting because it had one time been set up for use with a scope of some type. The bases for the scope were offset though, not like most we see centered over the bore. The rifle was really sticky and not a smooth straight pull, I’m sure 100 years plus of crud hasn’t helped. I just looked at it really good and didn’t try to buy it as I felt $800 was pretty steep. What do you guys think??
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Post by todddoyka on Dec 16, 2023 17:45:10 GMT -7
you are lucky, i have not seen a Ross. i'd like too! the brass and the bullets would be expensive. it wo;; probably needs action cleaning.
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Post by grasshopper on Dec 16, 2023 18:35:28 GMT -7
Well apparently the one I looked at will use the same British 303 as my SMLE. On later or other variations they went to a .280 cartridge if I remember correctly wasn’t this about like the 7mm Express or some such thing many many years later? Maybe it was called the 7mm Remington Express. I’m not sure at all now which means I need to go dig some books out and do some homework. Heard a guy say one time “ a dollar spent on books can save thousands spent on mistakes” that’s a pretty true statement in my experience.
Like I said this rifle hasn’t seen a good cleaning in a long long time! It was really cruddy but most all the metal I looked at today was just really dirty with a worn finish all over but no big pits or anything. I couldn’t inspect the bore because when I tried to look at it with a flashlight it just wasn’t happening. I know it might not sound like a bunch but the $800 asking price is pretty steep for me especially for a rifle that would be a novelty for me I think. I really would like to clean it up a bit so I could better asses it’s condition. I may try and go by there again next week if he’s open. I’m friendly with the owner and I would bet if I took the cleaning supplies down there he probably would not object to me making it look more desirable for him to sell. I really want to see if the straight pull action would really smooth out with a good scrubbing. Hopefully our fearless leader will have time and feel like talking a little about the Ross. I seem to remember him telling me you had to be careful when you reassembled the rifle because done incorrectly the straight pull bolt could end up planted in your face maybe? Getting so old!😁
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Post by todddoyka on Dec 17, 2023 11:57:26 GMT -7
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Post by todddoyka on Dec 17, 2023 12:27:04 GMT -7
they have a bunch of stuff on you tube.
the 280 Ross is actually .287". it is very hard to find. so is the brass, i'd try 375 Ruger brass first, then there is a 300 Win Mag brass. there is no need to turn the belt, supposedly. i think that had done something to the bolt that you had to reassemble it right.....i think
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Post by todddoyka on Dec 17, 2023 12:39:30 GMT -7
alright, i was wrong. go to 7:39 and watch it.
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Post by Bullshop on Dec 17, 2023 14:20:17 GMT -7
There were to my knowledge two versions of the Ross rifle one military and one sporter. I believe both came in 303 Britt. I once had a sporter in 303. My assessment was that it was a well made well balanced accurate rifle that I liked very much. I gave mine away on what would turn out to be a last visit to a man I call my adopted Montana Dad.
I think of ignorant fear the Ross rifles have been largely overlooked. There was at a time so much warning about the Ross being deadly if not correctly assembled that it just scared people away from them. Besides if you wanted a 303 there was no shortage of Enfield's. From my memory of assembly and disassembly of the Ross the safety issue was quite apparent to anyone that had a basic understanding of how mechanical things work. What I mean or am trying to say is that if assembled incorrectly it is obvious though I cant remember exactly what that was. The issue was with the bolt head rotating to lock into the receiver. When correctly assembled the last inch of bolt closing you could see the bolt head rotate and lock. When improperly assembled the bolt moved fully forward but the bolt head did not rotate to lock. This is my vague memory of its operation. If that bolt head does not rotate to lock into the receiver it can still fire but there is little to stop the bolt from becoming an equal and opposite reaction to the bullet accelerating in the opposite direction. Its one of those things that yea the danger is there but pretty easy to identify end eliminate. Your the guy on the block Rob but personally about half that asking price would be my limit especially considering the alterations from original. As you said its a novelty but the novelty wears off in time and then buyers remorse sets in and the degree of the affliction depends on the purchase price.
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Post by grasshopper on Dec 17, 2023 14:22:09 GMT -7
Thanks for all the great info Todd! I’ll check out those videos on YouTube for sure!!😁
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Post by grasshopper on Dec 17, 2023 14:28:33 GMT -7
Thank you for the great information about the Ross Pard! Watching videos and reading more about the Ross I would agree with your assessment about the over hyped safety concerns. I also agree with you that it’s a neat rifle but I just don’t feel it’s an $800 rifle to me at this point. That’s ok though you don’t have to buy each one you find for it still to be fun!!
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Post by Bullshop on Dec 17, 2023 14:36:05 GMT -7
For me and I think for you as well I think the desire to learn is equal to the desire to have , maybe even more so. Perhaps the desire to learn is what drives the desire to have. Knowledge is power !
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Post by grasshopper on Dec 17, 2023 16:56:52 GMT -7
I agree! As I’ve gotten older and hopefully have gained a small amount of wisdom along the way learning about various firearms and the cartridges they used has become more important than actually owning them. I say more important but perhaps what I also mean is I’m now content with the fact that unless some miracle happens a lot of the weapons I’m really interested in are simply unattainable. They are this way either because of price or rarity or maybe scarcity. That’s ok though because thankfully I have friends here that often have experience with some of the firearms I really like but haven’t gotten a chance to try yet. I really believe I enjoy reading some of the stories and experiences of others here with or when using those weapons. If I’m completely honest the best and most fun part of discovering and researching a new firearm is the hunt! Don’t we all want to go into the old country hardware store that just happens to be closing and look above the register and see a Winchester(fill in your fav) one of one thousand rifles quietly waiting there for you all these years?😁
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Post by missionary on Dec 18, 2023 3:57:25 GMT -7
But there is also the side of intellectual knowledge and the actual "hands on" experience. The whole human experience; The senses kick in, muscular movement, the sounds,.... There is no way watching a you tube, reading 10 books and hearing the stories can put you through the total experience. That is why regionally there are shops that "rent" firearms. Ya ever fired a Thompson, a MP5, M3A1..... Belt feds can be rented at the Kentucky shoots.. Fortunatly the Army paid me to shoot those plus a 105mm rifle with explosive projectiles and blow up old armored vehicles. But I still rent a few things off and on.... Maybe a Lewis next.
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Post by Bullshop on Dec 18, 2023 9:07:29 GMT -7
That sort of thing does not exist here where I live as do many other conveniences many people enjoy or feel the need for to feel normal. Its a trade off though that because we dont have those things available people avoid living here. The trade off is obvious and I willingly accept it and prefer it. Our local population does increase for the month of hunting season though.
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Post by Bullshop on Dec 18, 2023 11:43:29 GMT -7
Another straight pull rifle I admire is the Hungarian Steyr 8x56R. When we think about WW-1 rifles we dont think of the fast handling Steyr but I have one dated 1917 so it must have been in use for that first world conflict. The cartridge is much like the 8x50 Siamese or the 8x58 RD. Its pretty much a 45-70 case necked down to 8mm with very respectable ballistics approaching our own military rifle of the time the 1903 Springfield or 1917 Enfield in 30-06 No question about it either that the straight pull is faster to operate. My Steyr rifle is a carbine and a treat to use. It amazes me every time I use it that its an old rifle because it could just as well be a modern design like the new straight pull Savage rifles that just hit the market. To me it seems way ahead of its time but never really became popular as a sporting rifle at least on this continent. Probably had something to do with ammo availability because The Bullshop didn't exist yet.
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Post by missionary on Dec 18, 2023 13:16:15 GMT -7
Another fine rifle I will need to look up.
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Post by Bullshop on Dec 18, 2023 14:28:16 GMT -7
This is interesting, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mannlicher_M1895Looks like the model 95 dates to about 1886 but in the less powerful 8x50. I should say the straight pull not the model 95 They seem to have been way ahead of us in state of the art repeating rifles for military as well as with the use of smokeless powder. Another
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Post by grasshopper on Dec 18, 2023 20:13:17 GMT -7
I’m not sure if it’s the exact model but I believe a rifle of this design was made by Styer it’s in the 8x56 I think and the coolest part to me is the stripper clip ejects out the bottom after the last round!!
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Post by Bullshop on Dec 18, 2023 21:31:22 GMT -7
That is what I have the model 95 in 8x56 Hungarian. I think mine was made in Budapest . It is the carbine. My spell check keeps correcting my spelling of Steyr. I have a set of loading dies and a few clips and I bought a bunch of brass before the covid shortages Fun accurate little rifle. The only issue but not an issue for me is the groove diameter is about .329" to .330". Takes an extra fat bullet but that is not a problem for me. We geared up for that too and those bullets usually sell shortly after we put them on auction. Shroader bullet works was making a jacketed bullet in that diameter for these rifles but he has retired. No problem though because cast bullets of the correct diameter shoot just fine.
I havnt looked at them for a while but not too long ago the model 95's rifle or carbines were running at about $400.00 give or take. Mine is in super nice condition accept that the tow of the stock has an arsenal repair where a wedge of wood had been broken off. Other than that its a sharp little carbine.
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Post by Bullshop on Dec 18, 2023 22:03:32 GMT -7
Oh and I almost forgot about the K-31 Swiss rifles. They are butt ugly but they sure do shoot good. We sold about a dozen of them from our shop in Alaska when they were really cheap. We were getting model 91 Russian's 303 Britts and K-31 Swiss rifles for about $75.00 each at that time. Wish I had the for site to have bought a semi load .
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Post by grasshopper on Dec 19, 2023 0:37:49 GMT -7
Ha! I remember when the shop up there had those rifles and like you I always thought the K31 rifles were less than attractive. Just wish my ignorance of youth wouldn’t have prevented me from at least trying one but even $75 on Army pay back then was a good weeks worth of groceries even up in AK. I do wish we had a time machine to go back and buy a couple of crates of SMLEs those things are going for insane amounts of money around here now. The last small show I went to around here a guy had one that looked like it had never been issued and he was asking $1000 bucks!!! He also had beside it one I’ve always really wanted but it’s never happened it was a Springfield 1922 and it was also $2k oh well it’s still fun to look!!
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Post by Bullshop on Dec 19, 2023 7:33:07 GMT -7
Ditto on the 1922 Springfield. Never had one and the gap of possibility grows constantly wider.
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Post by grasshopper on Dec 19, 2023 8:03:20 GMT -7
Yes sir! I don’t see myself owning one anymore either. I did see a Winchester 52B for $875 the other day online, it was cheap cause it had scope blocks on it but that wouldn’t bother me a bit!
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Post by Bullshop on Dec 19, 2023 9:00:28 GMT -7
The Win 52's are legendary and I do also admire those but there is a mystique about the 1922 Springfield for me because of its connection to the 22 Hornet a cartridge I dearly love. The first 22 hornet was built on the 1922 Springfield at Springfield armory either by or for Townsend Whelen. Years ago there was an article in I think The Rifle magazine written by Layn Simpson titled "" Shooting The Colonel's Rifle"" For the article he was given the use of Colonel Whelen's 1922 Springfield conversion to 22 hornet . Layne developed several loads with that rifle for the article. I well remember the groups he was getting using jacketed bullets of appropriate weight for the 1/16" rifling twist. I still use that memory to evaluate the accuracy of my loads with cast bullets. Might sound like tooting my own horn but I think my 1898 Springfield conversion to 22 hornet would beat out the Colonel's rifle for accuracy. But to be fair I have had access to my rifle for years to learn what it shoots best but for his article Layn had very time limited access. The only way to prove that theory is to give me unlimited access to the Colonel's rifle and that would be the high point of my shooting life. Maybe if Layn had used Bullshop bullets in his testing he could have done better. Now I am tooting my own horn !
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Post by grasshopper on Dec 20, 2023 3:07:29 GMT -7
Ha! I would buy a ticket to watch that show any day any time! I think whoever did your rifle must of been pretty handy. I still haven’t seen a closeup showing the right side as you would fire it. I’m just really curious how he solved having that unique “box” I guess on the Krag and how he got rid of it to make it a single shot. I can’t remember but does it also have a different barrel on it now? Looking on Guns International yesterday I told you about the 52B I also saw one or two Win model 54s in 22 hornet and they were not cheap. The most expensive 54 I saw was actually in 30WCF! I think it was about 8K! I had no idea the 54 ever came in 30-30 I’ve always admired 54s and I would be as happy with one versus a 70.
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Post by Bullshop on Dec 20, 2023 8:56:37 GMT -7
My all time favorite 22 target rifle is the model 37 Remington. It is pretty much Remington's counter to the 52 Win. I was fortunate enough to have had one in my history but with prices being what they are it will likely be the only one. When I was young and more prone to stupidity I had a Remington model 513 - S factory cased in a leather bound hard case with all accessories fit to the case. It was given to me by an elderly gentleman that boarded with my Mom. His name was Guss and he had been best friends with my great uncle Bill that had willed my Moms house to her but his will stated to get the house she had to home Guss for the remainder of his life.
One day I visited my Mom and brought her a couple pheasants I had shot. We had a nice visit and Gus was there but didn't really talk much. The next time I went there Gus said he had something for me and went to his room and got the cased 513-S. He said that it had belonged to his brother that had worked in Illion NY that had passed away and he had just been keeping it. He said that since I was a hunter and spread my game wealth that he thought I should have it. It was as new with all original Rem pamphlets in the case.
It was serial number 101 and some time later I was told that Rem started new serial number lines at 100 so likely the first one. Guss's brother had to have been someone important at Illion. If you start looking for model 513 Remington's you will find many 513-T (target)rifles but the 513-s (sporting) is rare. So after a time being of sound body but questionable mind I traded it off for an original trapdoor carbine in 45-70 and that started a whole new chapter in my education
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Post by grasshopper on Dec 20, 2023 13:05:53 GMT -7
I try to view things that we experience in life like the saying you may have heard goes “it’s not the destination that’s important at all, it’s about the journey”. My favorite all time 22 was harder to nail down than I thought. I’ve had quite a few Nylon 66 and those are fun 22 rifles.
My favorite I would say is a Winchester model 69A it’s a neat little bolt action that is standard ith a 5 round magazine and this one has a factory rear peep and the front is a hooded globe. It looks much like the rifles they use in Olympic competition in the Biathlon. The stock is walnut and much smaller than those Olympic rifles. I taught both of my children how to shoot a rifle with that 22 and I probably really need to locate another just like it so they don’t fight over it after I’m gone!
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