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Post by Junior on May 28, 2021 13:14:42 GMT -7
It's been a few years since I've had to do much work on or with chain saws, so I could use a refresher.
I currently have 4 running saws, 3 husqvarnas and a Husqvarna build Poulan pro.
First off, carb adjustments. All 4 saws are currently running good. The two older ones Ive adjusted the carbs on to the best of my ability, and the 2 newer ones are still factory set. On the older ones, I've been adjusting the low first, so where it idles smooth, and revs quick, and then adjusted the high at full rev, turning it in until the RPM goes high and smooth, and the backing off until it just starts to sound rough. Is the the correct method, or am I missing some steps?
Rakers - Im hand filing all my chains since I don't own a grinder. Ive been trying to do a quick touch up every tank of gas, so they don't get too bad. I have a Oregon raker guage that sits on top that is a 0.025" gauge, but I feel like I need to be taking more off. Is there a rule of thumb as far as raker depth to saw engine size? Recently, I've been reeding that raker depth is less critical then raker to tooth angle. Know anything about that?
Im also using used engine oil instead of bar oil since I have tons of it. I set my oilers to go through a tank of oil per tank of gas. That sound right?
I'll probably have more stupid questions in the future, stuff I should know, but have forgotten in the last few years not cutting wood.
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Post by Bullshop on May 28, 2021 13:40:30 GMT -7
Carb adjust I usually start by turning both needles full in then back out one full turn each then fine tune with the engine running. Idle adjust is sepperate from tuning.
You dont want to lean the mix to the absolute top RPM because the saw will run hot and will burn up plugs and rings. Too lean and your plug electrode will run white. Too rich and it will run black. The perfect tune will have the plug running a chocolate brown.
In my saws I gauge rakers at .035" for my Husky 394's at about 5 CI and at .040" for my 2100 at about 6.5 CI. I have never heard any reference to raker tooth angle. I do remember though that a tool I used to use called the file-o-plate cut rakers at an angle but I dont recall the chain cutting any better than when gauged with the standard type raker gauge.
If your running anything less than 4CI then .025" is likely all it will pull smoothly.
Ole engine oil is all I have used since retiring from timber felling. It may cause a bit more ware on the bottom of the bar because it does not have the viscosity to stick to the chain as well for its return trip past the tip and back to the drive sprocket, maybe. However I do not feel that I am experiancing reduced chain or bar live so I am good with it. I think its far more critical to chain life to change the drive sprocket regularly because when you put a new chain on a worn drive sprocket it prematurely wares the drive links so the chain looses stability in the bar groove so is more prone to binding due to angular cutting. A worn bar groove combined with worn drive links on the chain can be a real pain when cutting larger diameter wood.
Keep the bar rails filed level and even to each other and keep your drive links in good shape by changing the drive sprocket regularly and occasionally close the bar rails to be a snug fit on the gauge of chain you are running along with gauged rakers and sharp cutters and your cuts will be straight no matter what the diameter of the cut.
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Post by Junior on May 28, 2021 16:28:46 GMT -7
I guess I should have been more specific about the raker angle, as its not the angle of the raker, rather the angle between the top of the tooth and the top of the raker. As the chain wears, and the gullet gets wider, the angle between the tooth and raker gets lower, supposedly resulting in smaller chips. I suppose this would be a easy test, by taking a new chain, and a well used chain and filing the rakers the same and see how the chips look. From what I'm reading on the pro saw sites today is that as the teeth get shorter, and the gullet gets wider, the raker needs to be shorter to maintain chip size. Say you were gauging rakers at .030" on a new chain, it might need to be .045" on a web work chain to cut the same speed. Ill have to test this theory a bit.
2 of my newer saws both have the star style sprocket built into the clutch bell. I suppose I could change the clutch out and run traditional sprockets, although I like the star type. My 346XP which is fairly new has a standard sprocket, but both of my newer consumer grade saws, Poulan pro (Made by husky) and Husqvarna 460 rancher both have the star style sprockets.
What brand chain do you use these days? Im looking at buying a 100' of new chin so then I can make chains as needed, since every saw takes a different size chain. I was looking at Oregon chain, or some some Chinese made stuff that seems to be the supplier for most of the chain companies these days.
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Post by Bullshop on May 28, 2021 17:24:53 GMT -7
I can agree with the raker depth increasing as the chain wears. But even using just one gauge depth by the time those cutters look like thin fingernails there is not much raker left either almost level with the link plates.
I use Oregon chain because its cheaper but I have always felt the Stihl chain was better because it was harder so stayed sharp longer. When I was falling I bought Stihl chain but I dont make the same wage now.
The thing about the drive sprocket is that a worn sprocket will round the bottom of the drive links. That condition causes two problems. One it that the bottom of the drive links act as a scraper to prevent the build up of debris in the bottom of the bar groove. When this happens the chain tends to ride up on the debris so has progressively less depth in the groove causing issues with binding in the cut. The greater the ware to the bottoms of the drive links the more compounded the high chain ride in the groove until the bottoms of the link plates are not at all riding on the bar rails but the drive links are riding on the compacted debris in the bare groove. The lack of alignment of the drive links the the bar groove or the tipping of the chain in the groove causes further ware on the drive links causing them to be thinner at the bottoms than at the top further compounding the binding cut situation.
Chains so worn may still be good for limbing but a real pain when trying to make long straight cuts. Sure it can be done by keeping the bar rails pinched tight on the drivers and by running the chain real tight on the bar but that a band aid not a cure.
If you are hand filing with a round file your gullets will never become a problem because they are being taken back evenly with the cutting edge. The problem with gullets arises from chisel grinding where the grinder never touches the gullet so periodically by other means the gullets must be removed. I used to do that when needed by first round filing the gullet back to be even with the vertical cutter edge then re chisel grinding the cutter. When I was working there was no one either round filing or round grinding everyone was chisel grinding. Before I could afford a good Simington chisel grinder I was chisel filing but never in my strip. I always files several chains in the evening after work so I had freshly sharp and gauged chains each day to work with. It took me a while to figure out that my production was higher if as soon as I noticed a chain not cutting full tilt to stop and swap to a fresh chain rather than keep cutting with a dulled chain. When busheling you get into a go mode and dont want to stop but if you dont your loosing money.
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Post by Junior on May 30, 2021 9:39:53 GMT -7
I'm trying to decide if its worth tooling up to make chains. I can get premade chain from china brands for as cheap, or even cheaper as what it would cost me to make Oregon chains off of a spool, and I don't have to buy tools. I bought a 10 pack of chains for my 2 small husky's a couple years ago, and for 20" .325" chains they ended up being about 9 bucks each. Im still using the first two chains on the two saws and they have book good so far. They stay sharp to cut a load of good, and I always touch them up before I go back out anyway. I need to get chains for the new husky since it has a 24" bar and .375" pitch chain.
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Post by Bullshop on May 30, 2021 16:06:01 GMT -7
I have a couple partial rolls left of 3/8 and 404 pitch chain but I have also been buying loops from Bailys or Madsen's. Sometimes its hard to swing the cost of a roll at $300.00 now. Unless I rock one really bad I use up about two loops a year on putting up the ten chord we use a year. I like to head out for each load with freshly ground and gauged chain. I could likely make more than one load on a fresh ground chain but I just like the feeling of confidence heading out with fresh chain. I usually take four but seldom use more than two. I also will not leave home to cut wood without at least two power heads, minimum.
I gave Nathan my old round grinder this spring because last year I bought a Symington chisel grinder from a local sharpening service. The fellow that had it didn't know how to operate it so he sold it to me for $50.00 I didn't use it until just about a month ago because I didn't have a stand for it. I finally got around to making a stand out of a truck rim, some heavy channel, and about 2' of 3" pipe. Works good and the chains cut good so I gave Nathan the round grinder.
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Post by Junior on May 30, 2021 21:35:19 GMT -7
Ive been looking at grinders, but honestly I don't really need one. All my saws are shorter bars, so not bad to hand file, and since Im cutting off of piles, I very rarely hit anything hard. My standard is to just touch up a chain with a couple strokes per tooth after each tank of gas, and then hit the rakers before I head out each time. I always take 2 power heads, one with a 20" bar and the other with a 24" bar. I haven't fired up the 20" saw at all though, and mainly use the bigger saw. Im probably going to buy a Reproduction 372XP here soon and set it up with a long bar, and it all probably become my pain saw, keep the 24" as a back up, and sell the others since I don't use the small saws hardly ever.
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Post by Junior on Jun 17, 2021 18:45:00 GMT -7
Ive decided with the prices of lumber to get a chainsaw mill to make siding for my house. I got a 1000 bucks from uncle Joe today, and I'm gonna use it to order a power head. The two I'm looking at, are the Husqvarna 372XP with is a 72cc saw, and a still 066 which is a 92cc saw. I like Husqvarna better, but I'm thinking the larger saw may be better for running the mill.
Also, can I just grind regular cross cut chain at 10 degrees for ripping chain, or is there more to it then that?
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Post by Bullshop on Jun 18, 2021 7:25:33 GMT -7
Ripping takes a lot of power so the higher the CC the better. Its also a good idea to add an additional oiler since new saws lack the additional manual oil pump the older saws had and ripping makes very fine saw dust so pulls oil from the bar and chain quickly.
As for chain you can by pre maid ripping chain. I always made mine from cross cut chain and it worked pretty good. I was grinding the cutters at 90% so they were square to the bar. I was also grinding the gullets completely out and also square to the bar and well behind the top cutting edge. The reason is in ripping only the top of the cutters are cutting unlike in cross cutting where both the top and the sides are cutting. This allows a very smooth cut producing lumber that almost looks like it has been plained smooth. Cant remember for sure but I think I was grinding the rakers completely off on ripping chain. Either that or was gauging at .040" cant reember.
If making long lumber you will have to use stickers about every 2 feet on each side so that the weight of the slab being cut does not bind the chain.
You will also have to make some kind of slabbing guide for the first couple cuts until you have a wide enough flat surface on the log your milling.
Along with the additional oiler a guide handle is nice if you have a helper to push it. Without it in a one person cut you have to work the power head side to side a bit to keep it from binding so you get angular cut marks in your lumber but with the guide handle and a helper to push it the saw stays straight for the entire cut so the lumber has a more uniform surface.
It is labor intensive but it can produce very good uniform lumber .
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Post by Junior on Jul 7, 2021 10:11:57 GMT -7
Been at work for 6 weeks. Got home yesterday, and then had to turn around and head straight back to work today for another 4 weeks, so I didn’t get a chance to cut much wood. I did pick up a wood truck, a 1983 Ford with a 6.9 diesel and a 4 speed, 4wd. Has a nice rack on it that I’ll build sides for and it should be a great asset for hauling logs.
While I work I found a 1980s era Homelite xl 12 hidden in the back of a closet and since it’s too hold to have safety features, it had to be “thrown out”. I like these old Homelite saws. Probably hasn’t been run in 20 years, we will see if it runs.
I did get a chance to go through my Husqvarna 460 yesterday. I pooped the muffler off and gutted it, and then took the carb off and took the adjustment drops off of it so I can actually tune it. Ground a fresh chain for it, gushed the rakers a little deeper then the .025 recommended and took it out and bucked up about a half cord of wood. That model saw has a reputation for being under powered for its size. Once I opened the muffler up and tuned it that saw runs very well.
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Post by Junior on Aug 23, 2021 9:06:57 GMT -7
Last week while I was home, a friend of mine gave me a bucket for of chainsaw chain. Older gentleman who never sharpens chains, just buys new. All the chains were in decent shape, not rocked, and easy to sharpen. 95% of these chains however were .325” drive .063” 68 link chains from Stihl. I don’t own a Stihl saw, and no one seems to make a .063 bar for the small mount husqvarna, and I don’t want to put .325” chain on a big saw. digging around I found a Stihl bar in my stash that these chains fit, however the bar would not fit my husqvarna. I decided to modify the bar to fit so I can use these chains. I had to lengthen the mounting slow, as well as drill new holes for the tensioner and oiler, but I was able to make it work. Probably more chain then I will ever use since I don’t run the husky 346xp that much, preferring a bigger saw, but hey, I should never have to buy another chain for that saw again.  |
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Post by grasshopper on Aug 23, 2021 10:40:07 GMT -7
We “older gentlemen” come in handy sometimes don’t we bud?😁 really like seeing you being able to make a bush fix. Can’t imagine where that comes from. Hope you have a great day bud!
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Post by Junior on Feb 12, 2022 9:30:34 GMT -7
Bought a new saw.
All the saws I have at the moment are Husqvarnas with the K095 small mount meaning finding a bar over 24” is next to impossible. Decided I wanted something with a little more reach so I got a 372XP
My biggest saw up to now was a 60cc with us plenty for the wood cutting we do up here but I wanted at least a 28” bar. The 372 is a 71CC x torq. Looking for bars online and I found one heck of a good deal on a 36” Tsumura bar, longer then I wanted but I’ll make do.
Now for a short funny story. I cut a 115 lick chain off the roll and got it made up, and then realized the 36” Tsumora uses 119 drivelinks, not 115 link like Oregon bars. No big deal. I hurriedly added a extra 4 links to the chain and for it mounted on the saw. In my haste I put those 4 extra links in backwards meaning I had 2 cutters on backwards as well. I must have been looking at those 2 cutters when I put the chain in because I fired it up and went to put it in wood and it wouldn’t cut. Realized the chain was on backwards and then while swapping it around, realized the links were backwards. Broke the chain, changed the 2 cutters back the right was and fired it up. That’s what I get for being in a hurry.
Little nose heavy but man this saw runs good. I found some big logs and stacked them up to get full use of the 36” bar. Dad is well aware of how soft out woods are up here, and that saw had no trouble pulling full bar depth.
Pretty happy with it so far. Probably going to order a big bore kit with a pop up piston and do some porting work on it and try to milk a little extra power out of it.
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Post by Junior on Feb 12, 2022 9:32:39 GMT -7
 guess my photo didn’t post the first time. Feels manly to have a real saw in the shed instead of those girly saws I’ve been running 😁 |
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Post by Bullshop on Feb 12, 2022 10:38:46 GMT -7
""Probably going to order a big bore kit with a pop up piston and do some porting work on it and try to milk a little extra power out of it.""
Sounds like Tim Taylor from Tool Time.
You do have a hard wood there just not so much in your area, white birch. They are more towards Fairbanks than in the Delta area.
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Post by Junior on Feb 12, 2022 10:58:48 GMT -7
Birch isn’t that hard compared to the hard woods in the lower 48, and also usually not real big. I have a couple cords of birch I took off a job site a couple years ago.
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Post by Junior on Oct 29, 2022 13:02:59 GMT -7
Hey DAD
I've got a Jonsered 625 (Same as a Husqvarna 61) That I rescued over the summer. Its in need of a rebuild. I was curious if you would build it with a 266 or a 272 top end. I do plan on porting it a bit to get ultimate performance from it.
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Post by Bullshop on Oct 29, 2022 13:23:52 GMT -7
Not sure if they both use the same connecting rod and crank. I think the 272 was an upgraded high performance 266 sort of a factory tricked out 266.. If everything fits the same I would go with the 272. I have used both in the woods and got good service from both. I once met an at the time older cutter in Alaska's Long Island using a 266 and we were cutting really big red and yellow cedar. He said the light weight allowed him to keep working at his advanced age. He said he ran a 32" bar but with full skip chain and it cut good but couldn't be pushed in the big wood. He also said he replaced the powerhead every six months if they lasted that long, telling! Still at the time a single days wages bought a new power head shipped to Ak. from Madsen's so six months of dependable service earned a lot of money.
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Post by Junior on Oct 29, 2022 13:35:52 GMT -7
The carburetor mount is different on the 272 (and the 268) but other then that it all should match up pretty well. I was leaning towards the 272 myself as thats a big upgrade from the current 61cc top end.
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