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Post by todddoyka on Dec 22, 2023 10:31:23 GMT -7
this is around 25-30 shots at 50 or 100 yards(?) while i while i was making 35/30-30 brass. open sights this is a 35/30-30 with reformed brass. sighting in Williams FP aperture sight. JES Reboring did the 35/30-30. i'm shooting the 200gr RCBS FN GC (thank you Dan!!!) and 2400/tuft of Dacron that goes 1726fps. i only load one in the chamber and one in the magazine tube. then i'll take 3 of the 35/30-30 cartridges and put them in a pocket and go hunting deer. before the rifle went to JES, it was a 30-30. i'd shoot factory loads back then and i think it was around 2 - 2 1/2" group at 100 yards (5 shots/bench). it didn't matter if was a 150gr or 170gr Remington, Federal, Winchester....it shot good. when i first started reloading it was a 170gr Hornady FN with a max charge of H322 that went 1 - 1 1/2" at 100 yards. one of the ones i loaded was a 125gr Seirra FNHP with i forget which powder that went 3/4 - 1" group at 100 yards. i killed some deer with it, but it never exited. i love the 35/30-30, especially in my ground blind. i only shoot 60 some yards, with around 30 - 40 yards is average. my choice on close cover deer is the Remington m760 in '06 with a factory ammo in 180gr Remington RN. my dad (RIP) has killed about 3/4 of his deer that way. it is great rifle along with great cartridge.
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Post by missionary on Dec 22, 2023 11:19:55 GMT -7
Well I will agree with your dad... an 06 will sort out matters real fast with most hunting issues. I would also add, that the 06 case can be counted on to form up into a very useful cartridge that will cover every critter our continent has still rumbling or squeaking about.
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Post by Bullshop on Dec 22, 2023 11:43:30 GMT -7
OH no now we might get into the ""if only one "" discussion. That is a hard one when a guy has so many on going love affairs. I think though that all things considered if forced to choose mine would be ?
Aw come on take a guess.
Yup your right my 22 hornet. For the place the world is headed my hornet always wins the argument. 45 grains of lead and 1000 full power shots in a pound of powder with a well placed shot will cover all my current needs and most imagined ones.
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Post by Bullshop on Dec 22, 2023 11:47:00 GMT -7
Well I will agree with your dad... an 06 will sort out matters real fast with most hunting issues. I would also add, that the 06 case can be counted on to form up into a very useful cartridge that will cover every critter our continent has still rumbling or squeaking about. Another famous quote from the good Colonel Whelen, """ the 30-06 is always a good choice """ or it might have been "" the 30-06 is never a bad choice "" Either way it means the same thing and we get the point.
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Post by Junior on Dec 25, 2023 17:19:51 GMT -7
Way things are going today, if I could only have 1 it wouldn’t be something that’s hard to find factory ammo for.
I have a 308 bolt action in each vehicle, as well as one in my Peterbilt, and a couple around the house. It will do about any job needed, and ammo will always be available from one avenue or another if you get my drift.
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Post by Bullshop on Dec 25, 2023 19:56:57 GMT -7
Yea going NATO is pretty dependable on all but one continent.
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Post by missionary on Dec 26, 2023 2:43:59 GMT -7
A very versatile round. Even down here where every firearm had to be licensed, a 308 Win. BRNO bolt rifle was OK.... but not a 7.62x51? Needless I never did say much about it all. Just went along happily using all the NATO ammo that came up missing from military ranges. That was a fine shooting rifle. Had a single set trigger and very well made steel sights.
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Post by Bullshop on Dec 26, 2023 8:01:56 GMT -7
"""a 308 Win. BRNO bolt rifle was OK.... but not a 7.62x51?"""
ignorant bureaucracy countered by educated silence
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Post by grasshopper on Dec 26, 2023 10:31:31 GMT -7
I would tend to agree with Jr, if I could only have one rifle the 308 or 7.62x51 would handle any chore I asked it too, living here in the South anyway. I’ve personally seen it in action laying alongside a sniper acting as the spotter in Iraq and it’s capable of a lot more than most folks would think. During one particular mission there was a, target rich environment if you will, and I watched as the shooter scored 800 and even 1000 meter hits consistently. I have no idea what the exact load was in the ammo he was shooting but I imagine it was pretty doggone hot! If I remember correctly it was a 172 gr HPBT. Finding ammo shouldn’t be an issue since it’s become such a popular round for hunting and self defense. I currently only have one rifle chambered in 308 a Styer SSG69 and while it’s heavy and not the ideal hunting rifle it could still get the job done without a problem.
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Post by todddoyka on Dec 26, 2023 11:06:46 GMT -7
i owned a 308 Winchester in Remington m760 and i liked it. the only reason i sold it is that i am one armed and it was a pump action. not to mention the m760 became "unlucky" after i shot the bear. i tried taking out for several years, but it was like taking the rifle for a walk.
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Post by grasshopper on Dec 26, 2023 13:39:08 GMT -7
Yup Todd I can sure see how only being able to use one arm with a Remington M760 would be a real problem, especially after the first shot! The last deer rifle my dad hunted with before he died was a Remington M760 in 30-06.
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Post by Junior on Dec 26, 2023 15:50:18 GMT -7
I have a 760 around here somewhere in the worst caliber ever invented, 270 win. I was gonna send it out and have it built into a 35 whelan but not enough meat on the barrel so it just sits. I’m not sure that Ive ever even shot it.
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Post by missionary on Dec 26, 2023 17:23:05 GMT -7
How about a 338-06 ?
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Post by Junior on Dec 26, 2023 17:39:03 GMT -7
There is probably enough for that, but I’ve gotten away from calibers I can’t buy factory ammo for. I’ve been out of primers for about 2 years now and haven’t been able to get more, so reloading is not an option.
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Post by Bullshop on Dec 26, 2023 18:12:27 GMT -7
I think the 338-06 is a sort of a factory round in the 338-06 A-Square. The A-Square might be an improved version though. The Missus and I were at an Idaho gun show some months back and I saw a deal I couldn't pass up. It was a TC Encore barrel in 338-06 Ackley with a set of Redding dies and about 100 rounds of formed brass. The lot was priced at $250.00 so I took it without even trying to dicker over it. I am a fan of all things Ackley so this was another added to the collection.
After a long term desire to try a 338-06 I finally have the means to do so and find it to be a hummer of a cartridge. For many of my younger years and before it became a factory cartridge I was a major fan of the 35 Whelen. My favorite elk hunting load for my 35 Whelen Ackley pushed a 250 grain bullet to 2600 fps. With this 338-06 Ackley I get awfully close to the same velocity with the same bullet weight. The gain in the 338 caliber over the 35 caliber with the same bullet weight is sectional density. With the same type of bullet construction the 338 will out penetrate the 35 because of the greater sectional density. The greater penetration potential may not often be needed but when it is especially in a potentially dangerous situation it sure is a comfort to know its there.
My current and recently experienced opinion of the 338-06 is that it is a fine cartridge well able to handle all North American game hoofed, clawed, and fanged with room to spare while doing it with the old war horse case and not at all unpleasent recoil. A lot to like there for sure.
BTW Jess told me the minimum barrel wall thickness he would bore to is .1" between groove depth and out side barrel diameter. I feel better with .15" but that is just me. At a .15" barrel wall thickness and a 338 caliber your out side barrel diameter would be .638" at the muzzle which to me seems about right for a barrel weight for that cartridge. Not too heavy but with enough weight to tame recoil.
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Post by missionary on Dec 26, 2023 18:56:31 GMT -7
We have a .338 308 barrel waiting for me to get a Mauser action. It is "short chambered" right now but will get reamed out to 338-06. Will also do a sizer die at the same time. Have used the .375-06 for some years now and the .338 just looked like a good "in-between".
Jes told me the same about wall thickness when I wanted to re-bore 336 to .411 to use for a 414 Supermag carbine. He did tell me to get a Model 36 which had just enough more metal at the muzzle to be safe. So off went a rusty bore model 36. Remember when a "rusty bore" Marlin 36 or 336 could be bought for parts. I should have bought 10 more than I did.
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Post by todddoyka on Dec 27, 2023 12:19:01 GMT -7
Yup Todd I can sure see how only being able to use one arm with a Remington M760 would be a real problem, especially after the first shot! The last deer rifle my dad hunted with before he died was a Remington M760 in 30-06. my dad (RIP) had a m760 basket weave in '06 and 180gr Remington RN factory ammo for 30 some years until he got his Contender (early '90s). he paid either $75 or $125 for it new (late '60s-'early '70s). my grandfather (RIP) had a 760 in '06 too (mid '50s). my uncle (RIP) had a 7600 in '06. my son has my grandfather while i have my dad's. Dec 26, 2023 17:50:18 GMT -5 Junior said: I have a 760 around here somewhere in the worst caliber ever invented, 270 win. I was gonna send it out and have it built into a 35 whelan but not enough meat on the barrel so it just sits. I’m not sure that Ive ever even shot it. back in the early to mid '90s and before, if you came to PA ,you would sell it. after the mid 90's, everything was a bolt action and with a magnum. i like the 270 Winchester, esp in a Ruger #1. 140gr Hornady SST and IMR 4350 at 100 yards 130gr Nosler BT and IMR 4320, left 4 shots at 100 yards
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Post by Bullshop on Dec 27, 2023 14:52:18 GMT -7
I have always thought of the 270 Win as a good long range cartridge when used in a good long range platform like a bolt action or single shot. I have always thought of pump action rifles as moderate range platforms. In my mind it is not a good pairing to mate a long range cartridge with a moderate range platform. Most of the Rem pump or autoes seem to have fairly short barrels. They are handy in the woods but do nothing good for ballistics of the 270. The 270 is a cartridge that responds to barrel length. Going from a standard 22" barrel to a 26" barrel can add a couple hundred fps velocity when slow powders are used. Go to 35 caliber on the same case with the 35 Whelen and you dont need more than a 22" barrel to realize it full ballistic potential. This because of the increased expansion ratio of the 35 bore over the 270 bore. With the increased expansion ratio faster burning powders become optimum say between 3031 and 4064 so the longer barrel is not needed. With the 270 bore and long barrels optimum burn rate becomes much slower say from 4350 to 4831. With those slower powders the longer barrel is needed to realize the ballistic gain. Without the longer barrel you just get more noise.
My idea of the ultimate 270 is Actually a factory rifle in the Browning model 1885 with 28" medium heavy tapered octagon barrel That rifle will get all the ballistics you can squeeze from a 270 and still be a manageable size/weight for the field. Remember that with a single shot your over all length is shorter than with a bolt action with the same barrel length or can be the same length as a bolt action that has a shorter barrel. This is just me though for my likes and taste. Other folks may have a totally different take on these points made.
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Post by missionary on Dec 27, 2023 18:40:54 GMT -7
Some years back CDNN had the Browning Model 1885 28" barrel in 375 HH for under $600 shipped. So we bought one. Makes a fine all day carry rifle and that long barrel with slow powder (4831 & 4350) and 275-300 grain cast a good combination. One day I would like to give breach seating with Goex and 40-1 cast a go just to see how accurate it really will shoot off cross sticks.
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Post by Bullshop on Dec 27, 2023 20:06:27 GMT -7
That triggered a memory from reading Franklin Mann's book "the bullets flight" This really stuck with me that he said in all their testing they always got best accuracy with pure lead bullets when using black powder and they always got best accuracy when using alloyed bullets with smokeless powder. That bit of information burned a permanent wrinkle in my brain.
The problem I think you might run into with the 375H&H and soft bullets is that the 375 H&H uses a 1/12" twist where as the 38-55 used a much slower twist of 1/18" The faster twist is harder on soft alloy or pure lead bullets. What I have run into is just about when you reach the point of velocity uniformity you start over torquing the bullets so your on either side of the sweet spot but you cant quite touch it. The more gentle 1/18" twist of the 38-55 allowed you to dial it in.
I thought it odd that when Winchester came out with the 375 Win they decided to stay with the 1/12" twist of the 375 H&H even though the Win cartridge was only loaded with a 220 grain bullet. When I designed our 370 grain 375 caliber bullet I used the design program at Dan Lynch's site to get the most length that would comfortably stabilize in the 1/12" twist. It will stabilize in the 375 Win but not the 38-55.
If you ever get to the point where you want to try breach seating in your rifle we have an NEI mold for a 300 grain tapered spitzer in that caliber that is designed for breach seating. This bullet shoots good from my 38-55 roller but my rifle has a custom barrel with a 1/14" twist. Long ago when I was a member of another forum I entered a postal match run by a fella called Buckshot on that forum . I used the 38-55 with the NEI bullet breach seated cast BHN-8 and if I remember correctly 8 grain of red dot. I won the match with a .375" 10 shot 100 yard group. Not a great target but good enough for the win.
I sent in the original target for the match but before I did I copied it for my records and still have that copy.
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Post by missionary on Dec 28, 2023 5:48:01 GMT -7
Howdy Dan We have a 345 grain NOE that I have shot out to 100 yards in the Browning. I did see what I thought was a slight "yaw" on target and decided to keep it as a 50 yard load. It was cast with WW air cooled and pushed with 4350 to about 2200 fps. It was PC with a GC and sized .377. A nice FN also. Did not really do much as the rifle was being used down in the river bottoms and the "meanest" thing there was the cougars who showed up monthly. They sure did not need that big chunk of lead but I figured if I did get a shot it was not going to be "open" and brush was going to need sliced. Used the old Ideal .37583 for groundhogs and such. I think 10 grains of Unique pushed that one. Made less noise than a 22 long.
I shot a couple of those postals at the old place Buckshot ran. Used one of our 44WCF rifles down here. Best I could get was about 4.5" - 5" at 100 with it. But it was fun and got me motivated to do more stand up shooting again. Couple years later we bought the BRNO 308. That rifle with the set trigger was much easier to shoot standing. Never did much cast through it though as things down here were not conducive to changing projectiles and practice. But with "surplus" ammo at 15 cents a round it was alot of fun. That was going to be our "head for the desert" rifle if things fell apart. That, a Mossberg and a couple revolvers were always kept ready to disapear.
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Post by todddoyka on Dec 28, 2023 12:58:34 GMT -7
I have always thought of the 270 Win as a good long range cartridge when used in a good long range platform like a bolt action or single shot. I have always thought of pump action rifles as moderate range platforms. In my mind it is not a good pairing to mate a long range cartridge with a moderate range platform. Most of the Rem pump or autoes seem to have fairly short barrels. They are handy in the woods but do nothing good for ballistics of the 270. The 270 is a cartridge that responds to barrel length. Going from a standard 22" barrel to a 26" barrel can add a couple hundred fps velocity when slow powders are used. Go to 35 caliber on the same case with the 35 Whelen and you dont need more than a 22" barrel to realize it full ballistic potential. This because of the increased expansion ratio of the 35 bore over the 270 bore. With the increased expansion ratio faster burning powders become optimum say between 3031 and 4064 so the longer barrel is not needed. With the 270 bore and long barrels optimum burn rate becomes much slower say from 4350 to 4831. With those slower powders the longer barrel is needed to realize the ballistic gain. Without the longer barrel you just get more noise. My idea of the ultimate 270 is Actually a factory rifle in the Browning model 1885 with 28" medium heavy tapered octagon barrel That rifle will get all the ballistics you can squeeze from a 270 and still be a manageable size/weight for the field. Remember that with a single shot your over all length is shorter than with a bolt action with the same barrel length or can be the same length as a bolt action that has a shorter barrel. This is just me though for my likes and taste. Other folks may have a totally different take on these points made. the m760 has a 22" that is standard, while the carbine version is either a 18.5" or 20" barrel (i forget). we used the 22" version. my dad's '06 would do 3/4 - 1 1/4" group at 100 yards (5 shots/bench) with 180gr Remington RN factory ammo. my son, using the same ammo, is around 1 - 1 1/2" group. i had the 308 and 150gr and 170gr Hornady FN with IMR i-forgot was 1/2 - 3/4" group at 100 yards. i think the longest shot was around 250-275 yards on my Dad's 9pt. 50 yards and less was an average shot. personally, i think the m760 in '06 should be able to take game out to 350 - 400 yards. i like the 270, i think i've had 3 or 4 of them. i only have one, a 1973 Ruger #1 in 270. the furthest i ever shot a deer (doe) was around 365+/- yards. i killed deer at 100-300 yards, but i killed alot more at 50 yards or less. 100 yards/ 140gr Hornady SST with IMR4350 left 4 shots 130gr Nosler BT with IMR 4320/100 yards
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