mike
Bullet Hole
Posts: 65
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Post by mike on Dec 23, 2015 9:19:38 GMT -7
I've just joined the forum and I'll be spending most of my time here in Cast Bullets and Black Powder, especially talking and reading about black powder single shots. Okay, we'll include repeaters like the .44/40 and others as too. Actually my favorite .44/40 is a low-wall by C. Sharps Arms. That gun spits out Lyman's #427098, powered by 34.0 grains of Olde Eynsford 2F in Star Line nickel plated cases, at about 1340 fps from the 28" barrel. A fine pop-gun for popping things out to 200 yards. Shoot sharp's the word, Mike
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Post by Junior on Dec 23, 2015 10:28:07 GMT -7
Welcome to the forum. Hope you enjoy yourself. I don't know about black powder that much, but do want to get a Sharps or highwall rifle one of these days probably in a 45/70
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Post by Bullshop on Dec 23, 2015 10:38:01 GMT -7
Welcome Mike! That C Sharps sounds like fun and maybe a bit more than a pop gun. I have a story for you that you may find amusing. I was on the divide between the Big Hole and Anaconda MT and found a site where Marcus the ivory poacher Daily had a logging operation for producing timber for his mining. This site has two set of narrow gauge rails running for maybe 3/4 of a mile up and down the mountain. I had originally though it was a mining operation when I found it but realized that the cars were 16' long so that spelled timber not ore cars. All metal was intact and all in place but all wood was rotted away. It looked as though this site had been abandoned suddenly because the cars were still on the rails and supply houses still held kegs of spikes and so on. There were two cabin sites at mid way and at the top of the mountain where I found some very interesting artifacts when I returned to this site with a metal detector. One really cool thing I found was a solid copper pendent that reads "" Anaconda the capital of Montana"". That was something from the days that Marcus was campaigning for the capital to be moved from Virginia City to his center of operations at Anaconda but we know that didn't happen. Anyway the really interesting part of this story is that near the top of the mountain there was a small clearing in the timber that contained a natural mineral lick. The elk had trenches pawed in a kind of star pattern emanating from this mineral deposit. I was thinking what a good place to come next elk season when about a dozen bedded elk stood and slowly departed. I searched the perimeter of the clearing with the metal detector and on one side found an old fired 44/40 case and on the opposite side of the clearing a slightly expanded 44 cal bullet. Now I will leave it up to your imagination as to the circumstances that lead to those pieces of history being where I found them. Hope you enjoy this story and hope there will be many more to grace the pages of this site.
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mike
Bullet Hole
Posts: 65
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Post by mike on Dec 23, 2015 14:25:03 GMT -7
Hey Bullshop, That is a good story. And, was that .44/40 bullet jacketed? Just wondering about the possible loading. If I had been with you I'd probably be more interested in the railroad items, even if it was narrow gauge. I'm a standard gauge fan myself. And I did some shooting today with my Sharps in .44/77 but I more than likely would be a lot more pleased with my performance if I had taken the .44/40 out instead. Shoot sharp, Mike
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Post by Bullshop on Dec 23, 2015 15:39:55 GMT -7
That bullet was either cast or swaged lead alloy, no jacket. I know for certain that it was a black powder load because the hollow base bullet was typical for the era and the interior of the case was the typical green corrosion tell tail sign of black powder and likely corrosive priming. I still have them somewhere. Another interesting thing I found among the mound of broken whiskey flasks was a gold cufflink with the date 1884 inscribed on the inside. I would like to return to the site someday and you are certainly welcome to come with. Where I am now living in Dell MT I am about 100 miles from that site so not much of a burden to get there. I stumbled onto this site while woods loafing. The first thing I noticed in one wall of a cabin that was still partially standing had a gun port. Poking through the fallen sections showed that all four wall also had gun ports. This gave me an idea of the time frame because it meant there were still hostile natives about. From there searching the entire area I found the double set of track with mule trails on either side with several cars still linked and setting on the tracks. Nothing standing mind you just all the steel hardware lying in place on the tracks with all the wood pretty much gone.
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mike
Bullet Hole
Posts: 65
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Post by mike on Dec 23, 2015 15:54:22 GMT -7
Some doin's! The gun ports can be from almost any time before 1890, just speaking very generally. That goes along very well with the dated items you found including the empty .44/40 and the fired bullet. Let's keep in touch about maybe visiting that site again. Shoot sharp, Mike
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Post by Junior on Dec 23, 2015 19:03:25 GMT -7
If you guys do make a trip out there, I would love to be able to tag along.
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mike
Bullet Hole
Posts: 65
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Post by mike on Dec 23, 2015 19:10:30 GMT -7
Not until you get a black powder cartridge rifle... We'll wait for you! Shoot sharp, Mike
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Post by Junior on Dec 23, 2015 19:11:25 GMT -7
Sounds like a deal!
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mike
Bullet Hole
Posts: 65
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Post by mike on Dec 23, 2015 20:38:38 GMT -7
Bravo!! Now, maybe we should both get something light and easy to carry. Bullshop might have us walking for a good while. And it does sound like .44/40 country... Shoot sharp, Mike
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Post by missionary on Dec 24, 2015 8:07:31 GMT -7
Howdy Mike Another new member here and another Mike who much enjoys a 44 WCF. But as of yet no single shot. Numerous 44's in 73 and 92's though. One of my favorite to haul about the deserts down here and see what turns up. I use 3F in mine as it burns much cleaner and gives a velocity on par with what the old books say the original loadings did. Merry Christmas everyone ! Mike in Peru
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Post by Bullshop on Dec 24, 2015 8:18:47 GMT -7
With my passion for shooting I have pretty much limited most of my lead consumption to 22 and 25 cal. The 25/20 has dominated the use of my shooting time for nearly 2 years now since Jr. so lovingly provided the need and desire to be connected to that abbreviated cartridge again. The recent acquisition of and end of a long search for the perfect according to my taste 22 hornet rifle has me once again dispensing my lead allotment in 45 and 50 grain increments. As a fairly new hatchling from Col. Whelen in its first decade the hornet provided for many during what became known as the great depression. Now looming on the horizon another that could devastatingly effect millions more than the first my new old hornet is at attention front and center awaiting active duty. I recall a friend asking an elderly gentleman from Grant MT if the large jackrabbits we were seeing were good to eat. The response from the seasoned gent was " we thought they were pretty darn good during the depression"
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mike
Bullet Hole
Posts: 65
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Post by mike on Dec 24, 2015 8:35:06 GMT -7
Hey to Missionary Mike, Those '73s and '92s sound great. I have an old '92 SRC in .44/40 and that's the only .44/40 I've taken game with. Some gun, for sure. Currently, however, I'm favoring the "earlier" rifles in the form of a couple Uberti '73s (carbine and rifle) and I still have the wants for an Uberti .44/40 with a 30" barrel even though I really don't know why. Just wants... And Bullshop, I'm what you might call a "complete black powder man" until you show me some good classic smokeless burners. I also have a .25/20 Model '92 carbine and that gun should get more exercise. Of course, if you show me a pretty Savage 99 in .250/3000 you will win my heart. Also, I have a good buddy who just got a fine low-wall (from C. Sharps Arms) in .22 Hornet and he's looking for a good cast bullet diet to feed that little friend. But we do need to see that Sierra Hunter gets bitten strongly by the black powder bug. And Merry Christmas to all. Shoot sharp, Mike
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Post by Junior on Dec 24, 2015 9:04:12 GMT -7
I've been looking at getting one of the 24" octagon barrel Rossi 92s in 45 colt for awhile. That counts right?
As for the 44/40, I've had two of them. Back when I was into the NEF handi rifles, I bought a used 44 mag barrel online, and it was over chambered for 44 mag, but chambered and fired 44/40 perfectly. The second I picked up about the month ago. Walked into the LGS and he had one of the old Mexican colts (stamped Col's on the barrel) in 44/40 for $200. Talked him down to 180, and walked out with it. Sent a friend a pic and he offered me 450 for it, and I let him have it because I needed the cash. Good thing is he lives a few houses down so I have got to shoot the gun, although I only owned it for about 4 hours.
I've got a can of Goex black powder, and the only thing I've shot it out of in the last two years I've had it, is I've loaded up a few 32 mags with it and shot them out of my single six awhile back.
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mike
Bullet Hole
Posts: 65
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Post by mike on Dec 24, 2015 10:01:00 GMT -7
Hey Hunter, It really sounds like you need some good help. Well, they say I'm just full of it! (Good help and otherwise...) That '92 copy in .45 Colt would fill the bill, I suppose, but it wouldn't satisfy me because that rifle/cartridge is not an authentic combination. Please don't get me too wrong, I've got a .45 Colt SAA that I've had for over 50 years. In fact, the first deer I got (using a .300 Savage) was given the "final shot" with that 7 1/2" barreled .45. But the .44/40 is much more of a rifle cartridge than the .45 Colt. I'd really suggest getting a .44/40 rifle and giving it a fair try. I think you'd be pleased and impressed. Shoot sharp, Mike
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Post by Junior on Dec 24, 2015 10:22:48 GMT -7
Only reason I'm looking at the 45 is that I already have all the molds dies and brass.
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mike
Bullet Hole
Posts: 65
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Post by mike on Dec 24, 2015 10:38:32 GMT -7
Hunter, I hear you there. It looks like the only real solution will be to get that Model '92 in .45 Colt now and a good or better black powder rifle later. These things have ways of working on you. Shoot sharp, Mike
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Post by Bullshop on Dec 24, 2015 10:54:05 GMT -7
Being an extreme conservative (read cheapskate) My idea of a black powder rifle would be maybe something like a Winchester Low Wall in 22 wcf or 22-15-60 maybe 25-25 Stevens or 25-20 SS. I like the idea of getting so many shots per pound of lead as well as powder. I know from experience that big things can be accomplished with little bullets. In spite of my thrifty nature I have from my beginnings been enrolled in the Elmer school of big bullets so on rare occasions confirm the usefulness and shootability of my 1886 Win 50- 2.2"
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mike
Bullet Hole
Posts: 65
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Post by mike on Dec 24, 2015 11:09:53 GMT -7
Hey Bull, Is that Winchester '86 in .50 caliber the gun that you used those 450 grain "515141" bullets from the NOE mold in? What rate of twist does it have? And what case is the .50-2.2? I though all of the .50s for the '86 had case lengths of 2.4" like the .45/90. Is yours a custom job? I've got enough to say about the Sharps .50s, both .50/70 and .50/90 that we should start another thread. Shoot sharp, Mike
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Post by Bullshop on Dec 24, 2015 13:10:32 GMT -7
Yes that is one and the same rifle. It is a custom barrel with 1/22" twist. It handles the 700+ "ouch" grain bullets I have tried in it. The reason for the 2.2" chamber that I was pretty sure you would question about is that at the time I had the rifle built I was forming my brass from 348 Win brass because Starline was not yet in the picture and I was plenty dissatisfied with other sources like Bell and Bertram. Fire forming 348 brass on average after squaring the case mouths gives a 2.2" case length so that is what I went with. There have been other 50's in my life like 50/70 50/90 and 50/140. I have taken game with said calibers from deer, elk and moose with big paper patch bullets pushed by charcoal/saltpeter fuel. Have a few grizzly bear to my credit but those were all 45/70 smokeless loads but one did utilize a 500gn paper patch bullet. Now that one is a really good story that still gets my hackles bristled just reminiscing on it. OH BTW Our mutual friend Ken gifted me with a really handy little Lyman nutcracker with die set for 50/110 Win and I found that is does ever so nicely with cartridges for my abbreviated chamber length.
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mike
Bullet Hole
Posts: 65
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Post by mike on Dec 24, 2015 13:33:29 GMT -7
Yes, Ken is a lot of trouble, isn't he? I met him in '72 when he had a flat tire on his old Jeep pick-up. We sort of teamed-up for a few things then. That's when my hair was dark so I refer to those times as the dark ages. And he made me a pretty good hat, only worn on special occasions. Getting 310 dies for the .50/110 should fall into the "collector's item" category. Good doin's on having them. You've beat me on getting game. I've used my .50/90 on deer and black bear but nothing more. Now I want to use a .50/70 on a meat making trip, maybe for buffalo. Now I will start another thread for the .50s, about bullets for the .50/70. I hope more than just you and me will read it... Shoot sharp, Mike
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Post by Junior on Dec 24, 2015 13:35:30 GMT -7
That's one I really wanna try one of these days, is the 50/70.
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mike
Bullet Hole
Posts: 65
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Post by mike on Dec 24, 2015 14:21:03 GMT -7
Hunter, By all means, put that idea for a .45 Colt rifle aside and just go for a nice .50/70. Just to show you how "taken" by the .50/70 I am, I have four rifles in that flavor. Three of those guns are Sharps '74s from C. Sharps Arms. The one that might tempt you the most, and it is not for sale, is a dandy little piece with a 26" heavy, half-round barrel. That's a special little rifle and it weighs in an even 10 pounds. Going up the scale to just 11 pounds is anther Sharps, this time with a 30" heavy round barrel. Then my latest is a 13+ pound gun with a 32" long #1 1/2 heavy barrel. That one has target sights and I might compete with it at Quigley next June. All three of those Sharps are Hartford models. The 4th rifle chambered for .50/70 is a rolling block sporting rifle that I'm still working on. Very soon it will have the wood down to final sanding and staining. Once hat is done, the metal pieces go to C. Sharps Arms for bluing and color casehardening, in addition to being fitted for a mid-range sight. The "roller" will probably be the lightest rifle in this group, maybe the best choice for hunting and carrying. Is there an easy way to post pictures? Shoot sharp, Mike
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Post by Junior on Dec 24, 2015 15:47:48 GMT -7
I use photo bucket to post photos, and then use their img link to post them here
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mike
Bullet Hole
Posts: 65
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Post by mike on Dec 24, 2015 16:51:54 GMT -7
Ah, I don't use photo bucket. So we'll scrap that idea for now. Shoot sharp, Mike
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Post by Missionary2 on Dec 24, 2015 17:48:30 GMT -7
Greetings I shoot the 50-70 in Trapdoors for now. Have a Roller in 43 Spanish that will be a project one day to become a caliber 50 something. Next time north have a jap 1886 45-70 Octagon going to JES to be a 50 Alaskan. Thinking that way as I already have the brass and dies. Plenty of caliber 50 molds. Always wanted a caliber 50 lever rifle and that is a simple possibility. Considered the 50-110 Winchester but the brass and dies were not a comfortable prospect to buy into. Plus again already have a box of 50 Alaskan. Mike in Peru
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Post by missionary on Dec 24, 2015 17:50:45 GMT -7
Greetings again Just learned to be sure I am logged in before trying to post. Mike in Peru
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mike
Bullet Hole
Posts: 65
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Post by mike on Dec 24, 2015 19:06:06 GMT -7
Mike, Actually, I'd like to try a .50/70 trapdoor. Maybe it's just something I've never done but no .50/70 has disappointed me yet. Ad you're going for a .50 Alaskan. Some doin's there. Personally I'd go for the .50/110. To me having just one box of .50 Alaskan ammo isn't enough to sway my opinion. My favorite '86 is a Browning carbine in .45/70. It's the second one I've had and I don't plan on selling this one. My faovorite shootin' load just uses "457124 over 55 grains of OE 2F, the carbine load. In the '86 carbine that's plenty unless something serious was to come along. Keep us posted on your .50 Alaskan build. Shoot sharp, Mike
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Post by Bullshop on Dec 24, 2015 19:48:34 GMT -7
Missionary I had Jes do a 50 AK rebore on a 45/70 Siamese Mauser. At the time he didnt have the reamer so I supplied one. I still have the reamer if you need it. The conversion worked out really well on the Siamese Mauser. Some barrels may need to be cut back a bit to make the .10" minimum wall thickness from outside diameter to groove depth. That is what Jes told me is the minimum wall thickness he would bore to. I am going on memory but think that is what he told me. My first 50/70 was a TD carbine but I traded it for a side by side double 45/70 built on an 1888 Remington.
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Post by Junior on Dec 24, 2015 21:51:31 GMT -7
Greetings again Just learned to be sure I am logged in before trying to post. Mike in Peru Haha, maybe I should disable the guest posting feature...
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