|
|
Post by Junior on Jan 23, 2021 15:57:36 GMT -7
I’ve made no secret of my desire to own a 45/70. Growing up, dad always had several, but I’ve never seemed to get one own my own. I’ve been on the hunt for awhile, and 2 of them came home this week. The first one is a first year Marlin round bolt that was gifted to me by none other then the old man himself. I guess he saw how bad I wanted one, and sent me his. This rifle has quite a bit of history with the old man, and is a treasured item in my collection, my most prized.  However, as fate would have it, as soon as I get the first one, a deal popped up on another one that I couldn’t refuse. The second one I picked up yesterday, and is a Marlin 1895GBL model. This rifle is basically a guide gun with a pistol grip and full length tube, which increases the tube capacity to 6. Marlin actually came out with the GBL, and the SBL at the same time, one being blued and the other stainless. The stainless SBL was used by Chris Pratt is Jurassic World, and is actually listed on the marlin website as being able to handle T-Rex, and is the only model thats rated for Dino. Because of this, these rifles have been very difficult to find, and about twice as expensive as other models in 45/70.  Last year, I picked up a Marlin 1894 44 magnum and never was very happy with it. It flat out would not stabilize 300 grain bullets, no matter how hard I pushed them, and was not very accurate. As a matter of fact, I could outshoot the rifle with my model 29 at almost any range. I posted the marlin 44 up on a local gun trader page, and someone offered me to trade for the 45/70 and I jumped on it. Since I have been wanting a 45/70 for quite a few years, I’ve been collecting stuff for one. One of the things I collected was some 410 grain billets from Missouri bullet company, designed for the 458 Soum. They didn’t work in the guys AR, so I traded him out of them, all 1200 that he had left. I loaded some of these over 43.5 grains of H322 and awaited the rifles arrival. From the 22” Marlin rifle, this load clocks at 1620 FPS average. I haven’t chronographed it from the 18” carbine yet. Accuracy from B00, as well call the old rifle, wasn’t great with this load, but not terrible either. I’m actually going to attribute some of the accuracy loss to the fact I don’t have a insert for the peep sight, and the trigger is quite stiff on the old girl. I made a 6 hour round trip last night to meet up with the guy, and pick up the GBL. He bought some other stuff from me that made the trip worth it. I got home at about 3am, and got to digging around. I had a Skinner Black gold rear sight that Andy has sent me awhile back. I mounted this sight on the marlin, and headed to bed. It may be worth noting here, that the newer marlins are not drilled and tapped for a side mount peep sight. I got up at first light this morning and took the GBL out. Standing on my deck, it’s just about 50 yards out to my pistol berm, so I just stood on the deck in my long Johns and fired off a few rounds. The first 5 rounds, with the load mentioned above fired offhand all grouped about 2” so I’m thinking this rifle will be a keeper. I had originally thought about having it built into a 50 Alaskan, but I may just leave it alone.  |
|
|
|
Post by missionary on Jan 23, 2021 16:36:32 GMT -7
I have to agree... Wear that caliber .45 barrel out first.
|
|
|
|
Post by Junior on Jan 23, 2021 17:20:40 GMT -7
Right after I posted the last post the sun broke out, and I decided to go out and do some load testing. I was really curious about how much velocity I would lose with the 4” shorter barrel, especially since I’m still on the fence about cutting down my 458 win mag. I tested four loads, and 5 rounds of each load from each gun and took the average velocity.
Remington Factory 405gn jacketed
22” - 1285
18” - 1275
Federal Factory 300gn Hollow Point
22” 1650
18” 1637
HSM factory 405gn “Cowboy” load
22” 1327
18” 1357
Handload 43.5gn H322 410gn Polymer jacket
22” 1670
18” 1665
I’ve noticed when testing other calibers and loads, that there is almost always less velocity loss with heavier bullets then with lighter bullets. With the 45/70, I didn’t notice much of a difference and one of the factory loads actually have a higher average velocity with the shorter barrel.
|
|
|
|
Post by Bullshop on Jan 23, 2021 17:34:11 GMT -7
Got some 325gn and 425gn gas checked bullets headed your way. They tested 22-23 BHN for hardness so you can run them as fast as the action will tolerate. Next time I will try to get you some of the 500gn paper patch bullets I like in that rifle. I like to run the PP bullets fairly soft at about 8-9 BHN. That is what I used to dispatch that grizzly that Dave Daw wounded between our propertied when you were small.
I still have the bullet I recovered from under the hide on the rump of that bear. Its pretty flat and about between a nickel and a quarter in size. That hit under the chin from about twice my body length put that bears lights out right now !!!
Do you remember the mad cow moose that I made a heart shot on through the forehead ? That was another close one from just a few feet distance when I was about to get thrashed by about 1000 pounds of mean, mad cow moose.
|
|
|
|
Post by Junior on Jan 23, 2021 18:15:09 GMT -7
If you send paperpatch, I would be tempted to try some on my 458. One of these days I want to get back into casting my own. I have the money right now to buy stuff, but no stuff to be had.
I need to shoot three bears before September 1st in order to get my assistant guide license for the 2021 season. I plan on using B00 for my first one, and may use it for all three. We are allowed to shoot 5 beRs right now now, 3 blacks and two griz.
|
|
|
|
Post by Junior on Jan 23, 2021 22:38:04 GMT -7
It looks like I’ve lost claim to the GBL already.... Our mailbox is out by the main highway, and right in front of our house there was a yearling moose hit a couple weeks ago. Since then, the cow has been pretty ornery. We walked out to check the mail, and she said she wanted the rifle. She took the GBL, and I grabbed B00. With 2 45/70s I figured we were pretty well armed against a I’ll tempered moose. one of the local troopers (Steve lantz) saw us out by the highway with the rifles and had a pretty good laugh about it.  |
|
|
|
Post by missionary on Jan 24, 2021 9:17:47 GMT -7
A good thinking wife is a real blessing !
|
|
|
|
Post by Bullshop on Jan 24, 2021 9:54:35 GMT -7
Chance favors the prepared mind !
|
|
|
|
Post by Junior on Jan 24, 2021 11:59:22 GMT -7
We are a ways back off the highway, with no real neighbors to speak of. However we are still within the delta game management area.
Last year after a unsuccessful and frustrating day of moose hunting I come back to the house to repair my 4 wheeler and there is a 4 brow time bull standing in my yard. I sat there with the bead of my 458 on his shoulder for a good 15 minutes debating if I should just shoot him. I ended up not, but I still think about it and sometimes wish I had since the hunting season was otherwise unsuccessful.
|
|
|
|
Post by missionary on Jan 24, 2021 14:08:13 GMT -7
If it was a legal shot there would have been no wondering on my part. That is the provision of God.
|
|
|
|
Post by todddoyka on Jan 24, 2021 16:10:26 GMT -7
sorry about the GBL, but i bet your wife ain't!!!!  sweet lookin rifles!!!!!!!!! |
|
|
|
Post by Bullshop on Jan 24, 2021 16:47:37 GMT -7
One shot with a 425gn at over 1800 fps might have a mind changing effect!
|
|
|
|
Post by Just Rob on Aug 19, 2021 1:21:42 GMT -7
I’ve made no secret of my desire to own a 45/70. Growing up, dad always had several, but I’ve never seemed to get one own my own. I’ve been on the hunt for awhile, and 2 of them came home this week. The first one is a first year Marlin round bolt that was gifted to me by none other then the old man himself. I guess he saw how bad I wanted one, and sent me his. This rifle has quite a bit of history with the old man, and is a treasured item in my collection, my most prized. View AttachmentHowever, as fate would have it, as soon as I get the first one, a deal popped up on another one that I couldn’t refuse. The second one I picked up yesterday, and is a Marlin 1895GBL model. This rifle is basically a guide gun with a pistol grip and full length tube, which increases the tube capacity to 6. Marlin actually came out with the GBL, and the SBL at the same time, one being blued and the other stainless. The stainless SBL was used by Chris Pratt is Jurassic World, and is actually listed on the marlin website as being able to handle T-Rex, and is the only model thats rated for Dino. Because of this, these rifles have been very difficult to find, and about twice as expensive as other models in 45/70. View AttachmentLast year, I picked up a Marlin 1894 44 magnum and never was very happy with it. It flat out would not stabilize 300 grain bullets, no matter how hard I pushed them, and was not very accurate. As a matter of fact, I could outshoot the rifle with my model 29 at almost any range. I posted the marlin 44 up on a local gun trader page, and someone offered me to trade for the 45/70 and I jumped on it. Since I have been wanting a 45/70 for quite a few years, I’ve been collecting stuff for one. One of the things I collected was some 410 grain billets from Missouri bullet company, designed for the 458 Soum. They didn’t work in the guys AR, so I traded him out of them, all 1200 that he had left. I loaded some of these over 43.5 grains of H322 and awaited the rifles arrival. From the 22” Marlin rifle, this load clocks at 1620 FPS average. I haven’t chronographed it from the 18” carbine yet. Accuracy from B00, as well call the old rifle, wasn’t great with this load, but not terrible either. I’m actually going to attribute some of the accuracy loss to the fact I don’t have a insert for the peep sight, and the trigger is quite stiff on the old girl. I made a 6 hour round trip last night to meet up with the guy, and pick up the GBL. He bought some other stuff from me that made the trip worth it. I got home at about 3am, and got to digging around. I had a Skinner Black gold rear sight that Andy has sent me awhile back. I mounted this sight on the marlin, and headed to bed. It may be worth noting here, that the newer marlins are not drilled and tapped for a side mount peep sight. I got up at first light this morning and took the GBL out. Standing on my deck, it’s just about 50 yards out to my pistol berm, so I just stood on the deck in my long Johns and fired off a few rounds. The first 5 rounds, with the load mentioned above fired offhand all grouped about 2” so I’m thinking this rifle will be a keeper. I had originally thought about having it built into a 50 Alaskan, but I may just leave it alone. View Attachment |
|
|
|
Post by Just Rob on Aug 19, 2021 1:36:07 GMT -7
Reading this post sure brought back a flood of memories from a little over 25 years ago. I was an Army sergeant newly stationed at Ft. Greely/ Delta Junction Alaska. I grew up in the south and had hunted nothing larger than a whitetail so to say I was a “greenhorn” would be an understatement at best. Luckily God decided to put the Bullshop “Bulletmaster” in my path!😁 He was a kind and gentle soul and took pity on me and did his best to teach me how to survive in Alaska. He also started me on the life long hobby of handloading. Reading this thread actually made me go to my gun safe and retrieve the Marlin 1895 45/70 that was made in 1972 that I got from the master himself. Sadly it’s pretty much a safe queen here as there are no griz or moose to dispatch. It may not ever get as much exercise as it used to back in the day but it sure makes me smile each time I pick it up and remember the great man that became my friend.
|
|
|
|
Post by Bullshop on Aug 19, 2021 9:24:39 GMT -7
Rob my good friend it brings me indescribable joy to have you join us here. Um I may not have mentioned those many years ago that the 45-70 works good on WT deer too. In fact the traditional vintage bullet for deer hunting with the 45-70 the 330gn Gould hollow point is still a top choice for the job even and especially loaded with black powder or smokeless powder loads limited to BP velocity. With the 45-70 1300 fps is magic !!!
Since Montana has for the first time announced an official muzzle loader season this year I have been working on loads for an early Lyman 45 cal ML rifle using the Gould bullet and it is working very well when sized to .451" for the ML.
In my youth I often despised tradition but age has found me embracing it.
God bless ya Brother !!!!!
|
|
|
|
Post by grasshopper on Aug 19, 2021 17:27:23 GMT -7
Dan, hopefully it will bring a smile to your uh “ruggedly handsome” face we will call it, should make Tina happy for sure! After not being able to sleep last night and after spending a little over six hours reading as many posts as I could I committed and joined the forums. I had an extremely hard time choosing a user name. I suppose it might be my weird sense of humor but I decided upon Grasshopper😁 It was always one of my favorite shows as a kid and it’s exactly how I felt following you around like a student hungry for the knowledge you possessed. God truly does work in mysterious and wonderful ways my friend! I’m happy beyond words that God has blessed you with such a wonderful family and a happy and healthy life! Seeing the pic of Daniel and Tony in Dick and Ethel’s shop in DJ all those years ago really made me feel my age! I’ll post again soon and let you know what I find with the 30-40 1895. Take care my friend!! Rob.
|
|
|
|
Post by Bullshop on Aug 19, 2021 20:51:13 GMT -7
grasshopper ! I like it! Rob you may have just joined but for me you already have celebrity status. After all you did long ago literally save my butt!
|
|
|
|
Post by grasshopper on Aug 19, 2021 22:21:07 GMT -7
Ha!! Well my friend I suppose your last statement is more true that most here will ever know. I’ll let you choose whether or not to entertain these fine folks with a tall tale from both our younger days! Thank you again for your most kind comments also. You may believe I deserve some sort of celebrity status and while I sure appreciate you saying that thankfully I’m just a simple man thanks been lucky enough to walk in the shadow of giants like you. As I’ve told you in the past, God is truly great! He does seem to work in mysterious yet wonderful ways! Many times I’ve not understood why I was in a certain place or country for that matter, yet as long as I trusted and kept my faith strong in him it’s all worked out the way he planned. Thank you again so much for the fantastic welcome here. I can already tell the folks that share their stories and post here are the kind you wanna ride the river with! As an aside this is the first forum I’ve joined or posted on! Take care my friend!! Hope all of your clan remains healthy and happy during these uncertain times no matter where they may reside!
|
|
|
|
Post by Bullshop on Aug 20, 2021 8:35:51 GMT -7
Thanks Rob ! Your personality and life experience can only serve to enrich this forum! The related story to saving my butt we will keep as an inside joke for now.
I dont think you ever met Dr. Jim a friend I used to hunt caribou with . Doc had a small plane that we used to fly over the Brooks range in and land on old oil exploration strips on the tundra. He notice that I had a tendency to sit on one side so he offered to help. He did a kitchen table extraction and solved that little problem.
|
|
|
|
Post by grasshopper on Aug 20, 2021 8:47:39 GMT -7
Dan, it does my heart good and brings a huge smile to my face to hear you talk about those times! No I never had the pleasure of meeting Dr Jim but I have no doubt he was more skilled than I was at the time anyway. Im just sure glad that he noticed your discomfort and everything worked “out” like it was supposed too! Have a fantastic day and thank you and all the others here for the warm and heartfelt welcome!!
|
|
|
|
Post by missionary on Aug 20, 2021 9:37:14 GMT -7
Howdy Rob and welcome !!
I had our 336 Marlin 45-70 out yesterday which is a 1951 made ballard rifled lever flipper. Real easy to get it to shoot most any slug just so it is .461-.462 diameter. Ran 50 rounds of a 405 (our cast) about 1400 fps through it with all sorts of clangs on the 100yard gong.
Shot several other rifles also the smallest a 1870 Frank Wesson 44 launching a 205 grain over 7 grains Unique for about 1100 fps. This rifle is my small game river bottoms rifle... Only weights 5.5 pounds and a joy to carry about.
I ramble on..... Welcome !!!!
|
|
|
|
Post by grasshopper on Aug 20, 2021 10:27:25 GMT -7
Thank you sir for the kind and enthusiastic welcome! As you may have read my only 45/70 is a Marlin 1895 made in 1972 if I remember correctly(which is a lot harder these days) that I got from the bullet master himself many years ago in Alaska. Sadly it spends most of its time in my safe these days although I’m thinking it’s long overdue for exercise after joining here! I really envy your ability to go out and shoot with such ease it would seem. Here where I live houses are just a tad too close on one side and a national battlefield borders the other side of our property so shooting requires a little time and planning to say the least. I got to see a picture I believe you posted of your Frank Wesson rifle, fantastic looking rifle! I would imagine it’s also a lot of fun to shoot! I surely don’t get to shoot the rifles I have near as much in the past, I still love to hunt but mainly it’s one type of bird or another these days. I won’t go into a lot of detail about it here but just from my past job in the military sometimes a medium size animal like a whitetail can cause a sensory overload when dressing the animal. It’s better than it used to be but still sometimes even helping another hunter the blood, the smell and especially seeing the muscle and it’s texture can bring back some unpleasant memories of friends I’ve lost over the years. So that’s mainly why I stick to fowl now I suppose but like I said it’s better than it was and who knows before long maybe I’ll be back to all around hunting like way back when. I still love to load and shoot though! I don’t think anything will ever change that. I mostly shoot handguns these days because as I mentioned before finding a place to shoot a rifle more than 150 yards anymore can be a chore. While with Dan in Alaska I mainly shot big bore handguns, mainly 500 Linebaugh, 454 Casull and the 44 mag. I suppose shooting all those has started to catch up with me because now days I much prefer a 44 special and it takes care of anything I need it too and I own several. Perhaps I’ll have to post a couple of pics over in the handguns section. We must be kindred spirits my friend because it seems I’ve rambled on as well! Thank you again for your kind welcome!!
|
|
|
|
Post by missionary on Aug 20, 2021 18:39:27 GMT -7
Good evening
Well the truth is yesterday was the first time in 3 years our 45-70 Marlin has been out. But it will be going out again regular as we decided this time up north in this fine country of ours to not cast any bullets until we have used up all the ones we carried out of our storage place. Must have been near 200 pounds worth.
Have about 50 more pounds of 405's so they will keep that fine old barrel warm for a while.
On the last of our caliber 50's we fire in the 50 AK. This morning very early loaded the rest of our .475's for the BFR. But other calibers have a bunch more to go down range.
I was in Armor 1971-1974. M60A1 tanks was all my time tracking about.
|
|
|
|
Post by grasshopper on Aug 20, 2021 22:43:15 GMT -7
Good morning, I’m not sure if I’m remembering correctly but was the M60A1 called the Patton? I was never around that much Armor but when I was in the 82nd Airborne we had a unit 3/73 Armor. They used the relatively small Sheridan. I’m sure if you have access to YouTube and have a few minutes there are a couple of videos of a C130 doing a LAPSE. I can remember what the acronym stood for back then but it was something like low altitude parachute something something. It’s really something to see if you never have. Peru is one country I’ve never had the opportunity to visit. While in one of my first units we did get to “visit” Bolivia and Columbia supposedly to help them with their rebel problem but in reality all we ever did was fly around spotting cocaine labs in the jungle. We would land, try to work our way to the lab trying to avoid cartel booby traps or in a couple of cases fight whoever was firing at us. It was all fairly exciting being 18 or 19 and not yet understand or even being able to spell geopolitics! The 50 AK is one rifle that has alway eluded me so far. I was really close when I was in AK and my wife surprised me with a Winchester model 71 full rifle in 348 win. I wanted to convert that rifle to 50 AK. Somehow our good friend the bullet master himself ended up with that rifle, I’m not sure if he converted it or not and I can’t remember what we traded for now. I do remember that my wife paid just under $700 for it, what a deal now! It was in fine condition except a previous owner had used an electro pen to scrawl his SSN on the bottom of the receiver. I’ve heard since sometimes you can take a piece of hardened steel, like a tool set breaker bar and “roll” it gently across the numbers that have been scratched into the metal and the harder steel will “push” the higher edges back into where the numbers were scrawled out. I’ve never personally tried it but in theory sounds like it could work to me. I hope you have a wonderful and blessed day down south sir!
|
|
|
|
Post by Junior on Aug 21, 2021 19:43:08 GMT -7
I was surprised today to log in and see this thread up at the top. I have been woking up north most of the summer this year, and only had my first time off since march these past two weeks, although I'm back at work now. I didn't have much time to do any shooting since I was trying to get a summers worth of work done in 2 weeks, but I did take my birthday off to do some shooting and reloading. Of course with hunting season coming up, first matter of business was to make sure my 375 Ruger was sighted in. I forget off the top of my head what the load is, but I am recalling it pushing the 250gn Barnes TTSX at around 2830 FPS from my 20" Alaskan Guide rifle. Sighted in for 200 yards, that puts the first BDC in my scope right on at 300, which is about as far as I like to shoot anyway with he 1-6x scope on that rifle. The next order of business was getting some real bear loads worked up for the 45/70s. I have several boxes of factory 405gn Remington ammo, and several boxes of 325gn Hornady ammo, which I am not impressed with, but that's for another day. I had worked up some loads with some cheap coated bullets to around 1450 FPS, but they left a hint of leading at that speed. At 1200, they shot quite well, but underwhelming from what I know the Marlins can handle. Dad had sent me some bullets to try, some nice 430gn WFN, and I decided to try these out. Powder is impossible to get here right now, but I do have a 8lb job of IMR4198 so I used that. Interestingly enough, the Lyman cast built handbook only runs their lever gun loads to about 28K PSI and their number 1 loads to about 35K. We all know that the marlins will handle 40K, so I started at the max load for lever guns in my 1895 GBL, and actually worked up from there. I worked up to 43gn of H4198, giving 1900 FPS from my 20" gun, but lost accuracy at that point. Best accuracy was at 40gn, pushing just under 1800 FPS from my carbine, and I decided that was good enough since it still shot most of the way through two stove lengths of dry spruce. I had a skinner optics 1-6x24 on this rifle for awhile, but managed to shake the reticule loose during this load testing. I liked the compact scope on that rifle, but it might be time to go back to the goodly peep sights. ![]() |
|
|
|
Post by Junior on Aug 21, 2021 19:45:54 GMT -7
|
|
|
|
Post by Bullshop on Aug 22, 2021 8:15:12 GMT -7
I think those bullets are from a Doughty mold. It is pretty much a copy of the RCBS 425gn FN-GC but has a wider meplate. Too bad he has quit making molds as he did good work. Dan Lynch of Mountain molds has also retired much to my disappointment. I always topped out right at 1800 fps with 425gn bullets in B00 I have a thick folder of loads for that rifle I guess I should send you.
Of the three RCBS gas checked designs my velocities were,
325gn- @ 2150
425gn - @ 1800
525gn - @ 1550
Have taken game with all those loads and all performed quite decisively. One other load I used a lot is the 500gn soft paper patch from Walt Melander. I ran those at about BHN-8 and 1550 fps and that load also performed with authority. It is the load used when old B00 saved me from that wounded grizzly. One under the chin at about four rifle lengths put its lights out post haste.
|
|
|
|
Post by Junior on Aug 22, 2021 8:53:49 GMT -7
I actually have a couple of boxes of your old paper patch loads that I bought off of a guy here in town. They are in the blue slip too boxes from when you were selling ammo. I have 2 boxes of the paper patch, and one with the 550gn Lyman HP.
|
|
|
|
Post by grasshopper on Aug 22, 2021 9:21:01 GMT -7
I even still have a few boxes of ammo I got as I was leaving AK, I’m sure they are worth way more as they are vintage and in the custom white paper boxes with the custom blue marker, I mean you just can’t find that stuff anywhere, ya know?😁
|
|
