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Post by todddoyka on Aug 20, 2020 14:02:39 GMT -7
i have been racking my brain( or whats left of it ) on finding out which cartridge will be used in my 1898 springfield armory action. i know one of two will be a 22 hornet and the other should be a 405 jes. oh, i'm going tell ya that this will take a couple of years to do. i have 93 oviedo mauser that i have to build for my youngest son, then it will be a 22 hornet and i'm not sure if the 95 chilean mauser action(6.5x57 or 6.5 swede) or the 1898 spr armory action(405 jes) will be built, i'm leaning towards the 405 jes. i have another 93 oviedo that needs rebuilt to a 257 roberts, but thats down the road too. anyway, i was going to 6.5 krag or 35 krag but i remembered someone(thanks dan!!!) saying a 405 jes and a krag action would be great combo to run, or words to that effect . well since i already have 35 cal and i'm going to build a 6.5 cal, why don't i go to 41 cal? its a caliber i want and don't have, why not!!!! i have combed the internet on the 405 jes and found it quite sparse. so i'll take anything on the 405 jes. i have about 50 pcs of the 444 marlin(short, 265gr ftx bullets) and i put it(444 short brass) into my 30-40 krag action and the extraction was fine(i placed the case near the chamber and then i went slowly push on the bolt and then the bolt did manage to catch the extractor. then i pulled the bolt and the case open) . i didn't use the box magazine, so i don't know. i don't care if it is a single shot or not. i believe the 405 jes psi is 40 - 42,000 and the 30-40 is roughly same. as long as i get 1500-1800fps with 260-300gr boolits it will be fine. now thats in order, all you need to do is to talk me out of it!!!!! please, prutty please!!!!
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Post by missionary on Aug 20, 2020 17:27:58 GMT -7
Good evening I got hooked on anything in 41 from the 41 Colt Deringer to the 405 Winchester So yes we have one.
Loading info is real easy Just look at the 444 Marlin. Anything that is safe in a 444 Marlin rifle will be safe in a 405 JES lever action. You should not have any problem with the 444 Marlin loads in that 1898 Krag action. Again start with the start loads and ladder your way up After the first run through you should get a feel for that action and what seems sane with it.
We have had our 405 JES up to a 340 grain cast slug in the 1-12 twist. That is about as heavy as the 20" tube in 1-12 will go. Good out to 50 yards and that FN would be a smasher on anything it runs into especially cast of range scrap. 4198 is a good all purpose power. 2400 for reduced loads. Unique for plinkers or lighy duty.
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Post by Bullshop on Aug 21, 2020 8:13:50 GMT -7
My only motive to talk you out of it is so that you don't beat me to it! Not that it would matter in your case since your starting with an action only but I am pretty sure that starting with a standard rifle barreled action in 30-40 cutting to 20" leaves enough outside diameter to re-bore to .412" groove diameter. Jess once told me that .1" on each side of groove was the safe minimum so the outside barrel diameter to be safe with a .412" groove is .612" and a little more is a little better.
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Post by missionary on Aug 21, 2020 13:56:54 GMT -7
Howdy Dan Your memory is ticking correct with that .10 measurement. First time I called JES was to get a 336A rebored to .412 to make a 414 Supermag lever rifle. That was when I learned the .10 minimal wall thickness. At that time he was very specific about only boring a 336A as the lower dovetail on some other models left the barrel very thin and they would bulge down or blow out at that dovetail.
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Post by todddoyka on Aug 22, 2020 15:54:00 GMT -7
dan, your not helping to talk me out of it !!!! i'll probably start with 2400 and if i can't find accuracy(under 3" or so at 100 yards), then i have about 3lbs of rel7 that i use in my 20 vartarg. i used it in my 444 marlin. i have 1/2 lb of h4198 i use in my krag. but she's a couple of years later. under 3" or so at 100 yards!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! wow!!!! i would be ashamed of myself for saying that. boy, has time changed!!! i wouldn't even consider a 3" group to be my deer load. it would be a 1/2" group or less!!!!! i know i can do better than 3". i have done .1" at 100 yards(5 shots/bench) with my 20 vartarg. i can .5" at 100 yards(5 shots/bench) with the 7-08, 270, 6.5 creedmoor,' 06, 7 mauser........ugh!!!!! i guess i lost the accuracy part of my brain. i used to be able to take pride in putting 5 shots into 1 hole. now if i do 3" at 100 yards (3 or 5 shots/bench) them i'm happy. a 2" group, i'm ecstatic. a 1" group i'm about to ecstatically pee my pants. sub minute group then i'm about to happily passed out!!!!!! and what of these wildcats i have picked and want? how about them obscure cartridges i have? why do i build a "semi" custom rifles too!!! am i gettin old? sometimes i wish that i'm am blissfully unaware of the rifles and cartridges and i wished i'd go back to days that a 30-30 with win m94, front pocket full of cartridges, 110 buck knife, piece of rope and a bottle of water are all i need to to hunt buck with.
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Post by Bullshop on Aug 23, 2020 7:39:12 GMT -7
Yes there is much to be said for the KISS method. There was a more simple time of the 22 LR and the 30-30 being the only common cartridges that boys learned the practically identical trajectory for. Enter Kline's pre-64 mail order and surplus arms and the trajectory waters begin to get mercky. We still have the 303 British 1917 BSA that my Dad got for me on my 9th B-day at a total sum of $15.00 delivered right to our house compliments of USPS. With it I became a woodchuck terror that year capitalizing on its so it seemed at the time laser flat trajectory. This year that rifle became the personal property of our youngest daughter Ahralee June on her 9th B-day. She has in short order become quite proficient with it shooting a light load with the Lee 110gn FN-GC. One unforeseen issue is she is constantly poking and empty box of 303 brass at me for reloading. Kids got a habit! Yes the simple time were great but no way would I trade off the hi-tech aspect that has become an integral part of my shooting. There is no longer the need to burn that trajectory arch into your brain, now with the punch of a few computer keys we can clearly see how random our guesses were. I like the precision of tech and like an addict yearn for more. I still enjoy stepping backward at time to the one trajectory class or cartridges and iron sights and even fueled by charcoal but I still have one foot planted firmly in hi-tech.
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Post by Bullshop on Aug 23, 2020 12:06:05 GMT -7
I was just processing an order and thinking about this and thinking that yesterdays shooting was a good example of what I said in my last post. Yesterday I was out in the hills with my 1874 Sharps 45-90. I had some smokeless powder ammo I wanted tp use up so I could re-use the brass to develop black powder loads. No formality at all to yesterdays shooting just indiscriminate objects at indiscriminate ranges. The Sharps is equipped with a mid range Soul sight that with the 28" barrel on this rifle has a range potential of about 1200 yards with black powder equivalent velocity loads. I didnt take any shots over 750 yards yesterday and none closer than 250 yards. Most shots were first shot hits on the rocks or clumps of whatever that stood out well enough to see through the sights. There is no way I could have accomplished such good shooting without combining what would have been cutting edge technology of 1874 with the modern technology of laser range finders. This is a luxury the buffalo hunters didn't have so first shot long range hits were not common but close shots requiring slight sight adjustments were. Yesterday along with the gun and ammo and laser I brought a sight setting card with sight settings from 100 to 1500 yards in 50 yard increments. With the known sight settings and the laser it was no great feat to make first shot hits out to as far as I wanted to shoot. I like that and is why as I earlier said I have one foot firmly planted in modern technology while still having a love affair with the old.
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Post by missionary on Aug 24, 2020 5:50:23 GMT -7
T agree Dan There are some very helpful techy advantages we have with us today just in the shooting world. Plus these computers !! What model of range finder are you using out to 1500 yards?
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Post by Bullshop on Aug 24, 2020 7:01:33 GMT -7
Almost 40 years ago I invested in a pair of 10x40 Swarovski binoculars. They were very expensive at that time and since then have more than doubled in cost. I still have those and they are still great binoculars. I got such good service from those that when it came time to invest in a good range finder I stayed with Swarovski. There are other good ones on the market but many of those have additional ballistic electronics. The Swaro is range finding only. In my experience the additional electronics are more things that can go wrong to disable the range finder so I use a separate unit a Kestral for the ballistic electronics. About eight years now and the Swaro range finder like the bino is still a great tool. I have tried less expensive range finders and most work very well in good conditions. Good conditions for a laser range finder are low light conditions and the darker the better. The Swaro works good in very bright direct sunlight conditions but under those conditions does have range limitations depending on the angle of the target and its reflective surface. In low light conditions and with a highly reflective surface such as a road sign it will accurately read range very much farther than I am able to shoot.
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Post by missionary on Aug 24, 2020 9:37:10 GMT -7
Binoulars 20 years back we bought a Steiner 7x Predator and that was a eye opener. Was at an Indianapolis gun show and the only bino I tried that I could see the sparrows up in the dark corner of the roof girders. Tried several big name units so went home with the Steiners. Swarovski was not one I tried as I knew they were beyond my budget. But the seller assured me they would also easily show the sparrows. Our range finder is an older Leica. It ranges to 500 yards and has a very good lens and also is the one function. I have compared that one lens Leica to the Steiner bino several times and it is at least as good as the two eye Steiner bino. Amazing what a superior well coated glass can do for vision into dark tangled brush areas. Even if the laser funtion died I would still use it as a monocle as it is a nice compact size.
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Post by Bullshop on Aug 24, 2020 10:44:18 GMT -7
I have stated this before and will again that without my Swarovski binoculars on my treks in the hills I am little more than a hiker but with them an efficient hunter. I had never located and stalked into easy range of a sleeping coyote until I got those binoculars.
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