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Post by Junior on Jul 25, 2020 3:03:13 GMT -7
Well I picked up a interesting one tonight, but I don’t know if it’s real or not. Went to sell a car tonight and after hauling it 2 hours away the guy flakes out on me. As I was heading home I noticed a car meet, and with it being a bit of a desirable car for tuning I stopped by to see if anyone was interested. Long story short, I sold the car to a guy and gave him two fiddy in trade value for this pistol. It’s got colt markings. Serial number pops up as 1902 on Colts website. I don’t know enough about these to know if it’s real or not. Grips are complete trash, but I suppose they may have been put on it. I don’t know if colt clones marked as colts were even a thing. Gun locks up good and tight, and has a good strong hammer. Other then the lack of sights it seems to be in pretty good shape. What do you guys think? I can get some better photos on the morning if needed. http://instagram.com/p/CDD5ye8J1jb |
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Post by missionary on Jul 25, 2020 6:18:12 GMT -7
Howdy JR
Without photos of all the "numbered" parts it is hard to tell. But it looks like the real deal from here.
Does it 4 click on cocking ? Sad looking holes ! Sight is a solder job
Caliber ?
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Post by Bullshop on Jul 25, 2020 8:21:20 GMT -7
Looks pretty darn clean. Even the clones are selling far higher than $250.00 Either you got a very good deal or an incredibly great deal.
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Old colt?
Jul 25, 2020 12:16:03 GMT -7
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Post by Junior on Jul 25, 2020 12:16:03 GMT -7
Howdy JR Without photos of all the "numbered" parts it is hard to tell. But it looks like the real deal from here. Does it 4 click on cocking ? Sad looking holes ! Sight is a solder job Caliber ? It does the 4 clicks. All numbers match. All of my reading and talking with a few experts it does appear to be the real deal. It’s chambered for good ol 45 colt. |
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Old colt?
Jul 25, 2020 12:17:11 GMT -7
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Post by Junior on Jul 25, 2020 12:17:11 GMT -7
Looks pretty darn clean. Even the clones are selling far higher than $250.00 Either you got a very good deal or an incredibly great deal. I’m thinking it has been reblued at some point, but is in very good shape. Locks up very tight, and no pitting anywhere on it. Bore and chambers are in good shape as well. |
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Old colt?
Jul 25, 2020 17:57:46 GMT -7
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Post by Junior on Jul 25, 2020 17:57:46 GMT -7
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Post by Bullshop on Jul 25, 2020 18:26:07 GMT -7
I think that the front sight was sometimes removed to avoid fast draw obstructions. I doubt anyone involved in a close in quick draw situation ever considered using the sight but having confidence that your barrel would clear leather without a hitch would be a consideration.
BTW I am curious to know what diameter your cylinder throats are?
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Post by missionary on Jul 25, 2020 18:58:41 GMT -7
Great !! Looks like and is numbered like the real Macoy ! Should be a fine Colt to enjoy.
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Old colt?
Jul 25, 2020 19:53:09 GMT -7
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Post by Junior on Jul 25, 2020 19:53:09 GMT -7
Looking at the barrel I think it had a ramp soldered onto it at one point, and that the back strap was milled for a adjustable sight. Six guns has some photos of guns modified in a similar way.
I don’t have any soft lead to slug the cylinders but just measuring with a caliper I get .449” on all 6.
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Post by Bullshop on Jul 26, 2020 7:40:06 GMT -7
.449 is on the tight side but would indicate late production. If your barrel groove diameter is larger it may cause problems. Ideally I like a .001" step down from bullet diameter to cylinder throat diameter then a .001" step down from cylinder throat diameter to barrel groove diameter. Cylinder throat diameter smaller than barrel groove diameter is an issue. This issue has caused accuracy problems in Ruger revolvers as well as in later non-pinned barrel S&W revolvers where a very tight fitting barrel shank when threaded into the frame has caused a constriction with correspondent reduced diameter at the barrel threads. This condition can cause very frustrating accuracy issues unless corrected. I have had two such revolvers that come to mind a Ruger 41 nag and a S&W 32 mag with this condition and after countless hundreds of rounds fired in search of accuracy gave up as hopeless.
Correcting tight cylinder throat diameters is simple and reamers are available to rent. Having a constriction at the barrel threads is not so easily fixed.
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Post by missionary on Jul 26, 2020 7:58:29 GMT -7
Really makes one wonder why Colt would allow that condition to get out the door. Maybe a Monday morning production after some big party.
Dan..
You must have received one of the rare 41mag Rugers . We have / had numerous 41 BH and all were correct cylinder / groove.
Yes that crush fit barrel syndrome is a real bug-ga-boo.
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Post by Bullshop on Jul 26, 2020 10:11:27 GMT -7
Yea that Ruger was rare even for me as I have had countless Ruger revolvers that did not have the problem and were good shooters.
""Really makes one wonder why Colt would allow that condition to get out the door. Maybe a Monday morning production after some big party.""
Or late Friday anxious to get to that party.
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Old colt?
Jul 26, 2020 11:12:03 GMT -7
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Post by Junior on Jul 26, 2020 11:12:03 GMT -7
I have a very nice Smith and Wesson 29-5 with a 5 inch full lug barrel that I like very much. However, it suffers from the thread crimp problem and is nowhere near as accurate as my other 44 mag revolvers, although still more accurate then my Marlin carbine.
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Old colt?
Jul 26, 2020 11:29:35 GMT -7
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Post by Junior on Jul 26, 2020 11:29:35 GMT -7
The truth comes out.
Barrel is not original to the gun. So I’m guessing neither is the cylinder.
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Post by missionary on Jul 26, 2020 13:45:11 GMT -7
Does a 45 colt cartridge fit into those chambers ?
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Old colt?
Jul 26, 2020 13:57:35 GMT -7
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Post by Junior on Jul 26, 2020 13:57:35 GMT -7
Does a 45 colt cartridge fit into those chambers ? Yes, and I have fired it with 45 colt ammo. The barrel is a very early Calvary barrel that’s been cut down from 7.5. It does have the PA stamp under the barrel, and may have been used in the battle of little big horn. The 4 digit serial number puts the barrel at around 1874. It was probably cut to meet the specifications for the Spanish American wars. I’m guessing it was probably put on this gun whenever the back strap was milled down. |
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Post by missionary on Jul 26, 2020 17:38:47 GMT -7
What caliber did Colt sell with a .449 Groove ? That size cannot be an accident.
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Old colt?
Jul 26, 2020 19:51:30 GMT -7
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Post by Junior on Jul 26, 2020 19:51:30 GMT -7
Well, I’ve been researching stuff for about 3 days now. My frame, and grip frame are all matching and date to 1902, as a smokeless proofed frame. The barrel is very early, 4 digit serial number, marked and stamped as leaving the factory in 1874 as a 7.5 inch barrel, and was sent out on a Calvary revolver. I was able to find some records that this barrel was used in the battle of little big horn. Somewhere along the lines the barrel was cut down to 5 and quarter inches. This may have been done around the time it was put on this frame, and the gun could have seen service in the Moro Rebellion as well. Or the barrel may have been put on this frame, along with the cylinder to convert to to a different caliber around the time that the top strap was milled down. The barrel and cylinder have much nicer finish then the frame and grip frame, but the cylinder does not have military markings. Either way, for the back sight I’ve decided to go a bit redneck for now and get my hands on a old barrel sight off of a marlin or some such, that has the elevation slide in the middle. I’ll take that sight and cut it down to fit the flat top on the frame and use a couple screws through the elevation slot to screw it on. Then I can figure out how tall I need the front sight and solder a new front sight or ramp on it. Unfortunately I don’t have any old sights laying around to cut at the moment, so this project is on hold until I can order one from midway. This is definitely one of those guns that I wish could talk. I bet it has a hell of a story seeing as it may have seen military service all the way through Ww1. Also, as a side note, comparing photos, the top milling job seems to mostly likely to have been done by Christy back in the day and it probably had a micro sight like this installed on it. http://instagram.com/p/CDISBbOJWag |
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Post by Bullshop on Jul 26, 2020 20:05:04 GMT -7
Jr. Hold the phone Son I seem to remember having a micro sight similar to the one in your picture. I cant remember though if it is a screw on or dove tale type. Either way you might get it to work. I will try to remember to dig through the sight box tomorrow and if I find one its yours.
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Old colt?
Jul 26, 2020 21:36:33 GMT -7
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Post by Junior on Jul 26, 2020 21:36:33 GMT -7
If to do, that would be sweet. I had also considered using a target sight off of a 1911 and modifying it to work on this gun.
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Post by missionary on Jul 27, 2020 5:45:51 GMT -7
I would be inclined to make a front sight from a chunk of steel you have on hand. Leave it square on the rear but plenty tall. Solder on
For now using angle iron (or bend flat steel) make a simple L sight to screw into one of the holes. No notch yet just a reference scratch for a positive line up.
Go to the range and get your windage at 25 yds. Once figured out cut a notch.
Then work on elevation. Bingo you are shooting with sights far better than originals that only cost time.
Our first through this process was a Zouave repro caliber .58 that took well over 20 corn crunchers before I was given a hurt Bear recurve that is still with us....
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Post by Bullshop on Jul 27, 2020 8:47:42 GMT -7
I dug through my sight box twice and can not find what I had in mind. After thinking on it a bit I might have already given it to you with some 1911 stuff.
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Old colt?
Jul 28, 2020 12:37:07 GMT -7
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Post by Junior on Jul 28, 2020 12:37:07 GMT -7
All good, I found some period correct sights for it and they are on the way. I need to figure out how to deal with the cylinder play. It locks up tight side to side, but it has a bit of play forward and back on the pin. http://instagram.com/p/CDMpjxNp42r |
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Post by missionary on Jul 28, 2020 13:47:04 GMT -7
Well that was a supper find!
Colt SSA suppliers will have the endshake washers / shims you need.
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Post by Bullshop on Jul 28, 2020 16:30:45 GMT -7
Possibly Brownells
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Post by Junior on Aug 3, 2020 22:38:33 GMT -7
Well, finally got around to getting the sights mounted on it. The front sight was a major pain with the way I had to solder it on, which I am not good at, but I finally got it. This group was fired at about 7 paces with cheap factory ammo. I’m willing to bet the ol boy will shoot pretty good with proper fit soft lead bullets. http://instagram.com/p/CDdLFeMJUev |
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Post by missionary on Aug 4, 2020 9:29:57 GMT -7
I like it ! a REAL BUSINESS COLT !
You can always little by little lean up a solder joint. But real life is you want that sight to not fall off.
Looks about ready to go pop a corn cruncher or three.
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Post by todddoyka on Aug 4, 2020 9:55:01 GMT -7
real nice gun!!!!! if i soldered the front sight, it would look like chewing gum was placed on the sight!!!!  i did solder copper fittings on copper pipe and it almost looked like a professional did it  , almost. i couldn't stick weld to save the life of me, but i thought i did an ok job on mig. after seeing how great you did on cheap ammo, i can't wait to see what you cook up. |
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i did solder copper fittings on copper pipe and it almost looked like a professional did it 
, almost. i couldn't stick weld to save the life of me, but i thought i did an ok job on mig. after seeing how great you did on cheap ammo, i can't wait to see what you cook up.