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Post by Junior on Oct 12, 2019 22:42:23 GMT -7
Went to the Fairbanks gunshow today. Had a few things to try to trade off or sale, but as usual I managed to come home with some toys.
Gunshow was the same usual bunch of guys who want to much for the same guns they have been packing around for 10 years, and not wanting to pay more then 300 bucks for a 1400 dollar rifle, but I did manage to sell two milsurp rifles and a glock I didn't want.
Then I proceeded to go buy a S&W model 29-5. This particular model 29 I believe to be a limited run Classic Hunter, with a 5" full lug barrel, and a unfluted cylinder. It has the endurance package, with case colored target hammer and trigger, and although it appears to have been carried it looks like it has probably had less then a box of ammo through it. This is the first and only blued classic hunter model I have ever seen, as usually I see them a 629 model a in stainless. I picked this gun up for 200 bucks less then any other 44 mag at the show.the trigger is phenomenal on this gun, almost like a fine target rifle. Hands down the best revolver trigger I have ever felt.
The second gun I bought is a stainless T/C Contender. It has the tompson synthetic stock on it, and a ported 16" 45/70 barrel. I also then went and bought a tompson plastic pistol grip and a stainless 10" 44 mag barrel off of another table.
I'll try to get some photos up soon.
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Post by Junior on Oct 12, 2019 22:50:01 GMT -7
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Post by Junior on Oct 12, 2019 22:51:25 GMT -7
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Post by missionary on Oct 13, 2019 7:48:17 GMT -7
Those two critter stompers will serve you well. And a plus with that 44 10" barrel.
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Post by Bullshop on Oct 13, 2019 8:53:03 GMT -7
Daniel before you were born and even before I ever met your mother I had that same S&W revolver. S&W had announced this new model but had no name for it yet. They ran a PR campaign for customers to submit a name to be chosen and the winner would receive for free serial # 1 of the new model
At the same time they were offering these for $300.00 with a pre pay six months in advance of the release and naming of the model. I submitted a name choice as well as the $300.00 advance payment.
My name submission was not chosen but I did receive my new revolver when they became available. As you know they chose the "Classic Hunter" name and so it is. I was so excited to get my revolver from the very first low serial number range. My excitement soon waned when I discovered my revolver had serious issues. One of those issues was that the cylinder face was contacting the forcing cone causing scratching of the cylinder face. The other issue was that the lock works were so out of time that the double action mode would bind and cause a very rough very hard double action pull.
I contacted S&W and they had me send it to their nearest authorized service rep. I was pleased with their willingness to correct the problems but not at all pleased with the service work. The only thing I could determine that was done was that the rep applied some cold blue to the cylinder face without ever correcting the contact issue. As for the DA problem he did nothing at all.
Being very disappointed with the whole deal I took the revolver to a gun show in Hamilton MT. At that show was a dealer for Swarovski optics. He saw the revolver in my waist band and asked to see it. He kept commenting that it was a custom revolver because the model was so new very few people had ever seen it. I told him the story about the gun but he seemed to not even hear me and just kept saying "wow a custom S&W""
He asked if there was anything on his table I might be interested in. I had been to his table several times each time looking at the same pair of Swarovski 10x40 mil type rubber armored binoculars. I told him I was very much interested in those binoculars but could not afford the nearly $1,000.00 price tag. He then asked if I would trade. I expected to have to add substantial taboot and asked how he would trade. Much to my surprise he said straight up. Well Son you know how that went and that nearly 40 years later I still hunt with those binoculars. I hope that someday when I can no longer use them you will add some decades of used to them.
At that time they were warrantied for life for the registered owner which I am. I still have the original box and even some of the original lens cleaning paper that came with them. I see that the current version of this glass is $2,500.00 so they are still as insanely expensive as they were then.
One thing I can say without doubt is that when I took possession of these glasses I became a much better hunter. Over the years of use they have formed my style of hunting and now without them I would be little more than a hiker with a gun.
I am sure you got one of the good ones in that S&W but I must have gotten one of the few or possibly even the only bad one. I would very much enjoy a day of shooting with a good one.
BTW I am wondering what the rifling twist rate is in your 44 TC barrel. It will dictate what bullet weight/length it shoots best. Another point is that with standard slow magnum pistol powders your TC barrel will show up to a 500 fps velocity gain over the S&W revolver.
Have fun !
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Post by Junior on Oct 13, 2019 10:26:05 GMT -7
I too am interested in how the contender will do. The 45/70 in that light of a gun will be interesting. I was looking for a 45/70 marlin, but everyone wanted new prices or more for used guns. All the ammo I have is your old shop loads, mainly some 425gn, some 510gn paper patch and some 550gn hollow points, all which say Marlin only on the box, but I'm sure the contender can handle anything the marlin canm
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Post by Bullshop on Oct 13, 2019 12:23:22 GMT -7
The Contender will be fine with the Marlin loads but possibly you may not be. As I recall those loads were doing 1850 fps for the 425gn and 1550 for the HP and PP loads from my Marlin. That young Grizzly I shot when Abraham was born was shot with the 550gn bullet and performed well on the frontal chest shot. She made a heck of a ruckus for about 30 seconds but that big hole through the middle dropped her oil pressure pretty quick.
That bear had been gorging on oats and barley and blue berries. She was blue on both ends and if you remember was excellent table fare.
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Post by Junior on Oct 13, 2019 12:56:07 GMT -7
I'm not usually a fan of porting, but may be thankful for the muzzle brake on this light of a rifle.
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Post by Hombre on Oct 13, 2019 20:01:43 GMT -7
A few nice acquisitions there Daniel. Yes, them lads at the Fairbanks show probably still have some of the irons on their table they had when I last attended a Fairbanks show in the early 1990's!
Gun shows tend to be similar all over the country: what they're selling is gold and what you have walking down the aisle is lead. Montana has their share!!
There are some 'good guys' out there though, just not always easily found.
The T/C 'ported' .45-70 carbine did come with a set of large ear plugs - didn't it!!
The T/C 10" .44 mag setup should make for a handy carry on a snowmachine pack.
I'd bought the same S&W .44 mag you have, though with a 3" barrel, in '94 at Gun Traders, in Anchorage. It was more accurate that I'd originally figured it would be, out to past 25 yards anyway. Had figured on keeping it, then at an Anchorage g/show a lady n' her husband stopped by my table and we got to talking. The both hunted black bear over bait with a 'stick-n-a-string' and she was wanting something to help her out in case a bear decided to climb the tree and join her! I pulled the S&W 3" out from under my table and showed her it may well be along the lines of what she was looking for? To shorten the story, she talked me out of it. I told her to try .44 Special loads at first, then try .44 magnum loads, to see if she would like it? If she didn't like it, to bring it back at the next g/show and I'd buy it back for what she paid. At the next g/show they both stopped by my table and thanked me for recommending the 3" .44 magnum. I still kinda miss that .44. Your 5" modle/length (as you already are aware of/know) will give fine duty up north there. Enjoy my friend. Regards to you n' the Mrs. Bear
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Post by Junior on Oct 18, 2019 18:25:45 GMT -7
Finally get a chance to shoot the old 29 today. This was the first 6 rounds at 20ish yards offhand, with my butt leaned against the hood of my truck. The flier was my first shot since I was not expecting the light trigger pull. Shot about 2 boxes of ammo, and even though I'm a ruger guy, this gun may take place of my redhawk as favorite 44 mag. http://instagram.com/p/B3xsoKBp... =1smer9t0dg06m On another note, I did not shoot the 45/70 but I did shoot the 44 mag contender pistol, and I'd anyone wants one I will be selling this one. The way my hands fit on the grip the break open lever bust my knuckle open every shot and it is absolutely miserable to shoot. |
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Post by Junior on Oct 19, 2019 22:07:37 GMT -7
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Post by missionary on Oct 20, 2019 7:41:30 GMT -7
I do like that hi-tech target.
N Frame Smith's are OK revolvers. We have a 44 4" and a couple 41 mags all blue Not brute strong like a Dan Wesson or Redhawk but do well for hunting and medium hot rounds. Possibly weigh a good half pound less than the heavy "big dog" revolvers but sure will last longer not pushing anti-tank loads all the time.
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Post by Junior on Oct 20, 2019 11:57:09 GMT -7
I do like that hi-tech target. N Frame Smith's are OK revolvers. We have a 44 4" and a couple 41 mags all blue Not brute strong like a Dan Wesson or Redhawk but do well for hunting and medium hot rounds. Possibly weigh a good half pound less than the heavy "big dog" revolvers but sure will last longer not pushing anti-tank loads all the time. This was something I knew before I bought its but I was surprised that the Smith has thinner side walls on the chambers then even my Taurus. The taurus will handle my hot ruger hand loads the Smith will not so I'm gonna gave to be more careful with this gun. |
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Post by Bullshop on Oct 20, 2019 12:23:48 GMT -7
The S&W is no slouch either. It was made to safely shoot factory ammo and some factory ammo was/is hot. I once got ahold of some very early production 44 mag ammo. It was I believe loaded by Remington with a swaged 240gn lead gas checked bullet. These were very soft but gas checked. I believe this ammo was loaded with Alcan #8 powder which is similar in burn rate to 2400 but perhaps a bit cleaner burning. This was very likely the hottest factory 44 mag ammo I have ever used.
There were no personal chronographs at the time but I read that this ammo was rated at 1500 fps from a 6" S&W 29.
One thing I can say with certainty is that this ammo created the worst barrel leading it has ever been my displeasure to have to deal with.
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Post by missionary on Oct 20, 2019 14:59:17 GMT -7
I am not surprised to read that ! Bet expansion was awesome !
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Post by Junior on Oct 20, 2019 17:49:35 GMT -7
So I got a chance to shoot the model 29 a bit more today even though I'm supposed to be working on roofing. This gun shoots fantastic with jacketed ammo, much better then I am capable of shooting. How ever, it will tumble with cast. I tired a few different loads, all which work good in all of my other 44 mags, and all of them would keyhole at 15 yards. Not really sure why since it shoots jacketed so well. http://instagram.com/p/B33FeoXJqZ9 |
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Post by missionary on Oct 20, 2019 19:05:53 GMT -7
I would check my revolver diameters carefully. We run our 44's and 41s at least .0015 over throat diameter.
But if the barrel has a groove more than the cylinder throats you are going to have to open those cylinder throat diameters or be content shooting soft cast slugs at lower velocities.
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Post by Bullshop on Oct 20, 2019 19:50:54 GMT -7
The classic hunter was one of the first models to use the non pinned crush fit barrel. The crush fit is an over size male thread forced into an undersize female thread. Now get your minds out of the gutter an think guns again. The crush fit barrel can cause a choke in the threaded portion of the barrel shank which if present can size cast bullets smaller than barrel groove diameter regardless of cylinder throat diameter. If this condition is present the gun will not shoot cast bullets well until the choke is lapped out.
To check for the condition drive a soft slug into the muzzle then pull it out. Drive a second soft slug completely through the barrel from muzzle to forcing cone. If the slug that went through the barrel is smaller in diameter than the slug that only went into the muzzle the choke condition is there.
It is a fairly common condition and in some cases can be seen by looking into the muzzle holding a light at the forcing cone. Most people that only shoot factory jacketed bullet ammo will never know the condition exists in their gun because as you have shown it shoots good with that ammo.
I hope you get it figured out because no 44 magnum should be deprived what its creator intended.
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Post by missionary on Oct 21, 2019 2:17:22 GMT -7
So about what year did S&W start that little cost saver? About 1978 we discovered Dan Wessons and never looked back at the new Smith brothers.
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Post by Bullshop on Oct 21, 2019 7:35:45 GMT -7
I am not sure exactly when that would have been but would guess about early 80's about the same time they came out with the L-frame. I am pretty sure that all L-frames use the crush fit barrel. You will see many N and K and J frames with pinned barrels but if you ever see an L frame with a pinned barrel its a rarity.
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Post by missionary on Oct 21, 2019 13:55:51 GMT -7
As I think about this issue with S&W it makes me wonder how many other "cost saving" steps they will take that will continue to degrade the quality ?
Or is it a conspiracy against cast bullet shooters ?
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Post by Bullshop on Oct 21, 2019 14:55:04 GMT -7
Bottom line as always in the corporate world is profit margin. Another step they took at about the same time was to quit the recessed case rims in the cylinder. This step in my opinion makes the new gun less aesthetically pleasing because they now have a wide gap between cylinder and backing plate. Too a moot point likely because they are strong enough but less strong than a recessed case rim.
I doubt conspiracy but am sure profit is king. Their ignorance though about cast bullets may be costing them some profit. They say ignorance is bliss. That's what happens when corporate pencil neck bean counters run the show and not shooters.
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Post by Junior on Oct 21, 2019 22:06:02 GMT -7
I got some different grips for the gun today. The factory hogue dis not fit my hands at all. I had intended on sanding the finger grooves off of these, but I can live with them for now. http://instagram.com/p/B36HA4spe0l |
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Post by Bullshop on Oct 22, 2019 8:09:30 GMT -7
I like those much better!
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Post by missionary on Oct 22, 2019 14:51:44 GMT -7
That is some good looking wood ! It makes that S&W into a handsome revolver.
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