Thompson Center 209x50 Encore, the learning curve begins
Sept 8, 2019 13:26:58 GMT -7
todddoyka and shootist---Gary like this
Post by Bullshop on Sept 8, 2019 13:26:58 GMT -7
For a time a short distance from my home not more than 400 yards there was an annual display of utter stupidity at least once during each hunting season where all reason and safety concerns seemed to be obliterated by an urgency to get off a shot before the next of many involved in an L shaped cross fire. At least once every season sometimes more than once an elk heard would be pushed across the interstate and caught in a cross fire situation between the intersection of Big Sheep Creek and the west side frontage road . During hunting season there are always large elk herds in the bottom private lands of several large ranches. Once in these areas they are protected from hunters. There are always so called hunters that patrol these ranches waiting for these large elk herds to move between ranches or enter some of the small parcels of state public lands that are interspersed between the private holdings.
These displays of human stupidity generally result in many wounded elk as well as human injuries leading to still more stupidity. For this reason about two years ago our F&G department has designated the state land near me as a muzzle loader or archery area only. It was at this time and for that reason that my lovely bride bought me a Thompson Center Encore rifle in the 209x50 caliber. My experience with all things TC has been that they are of high quality and this one is no different. If anything this gun is so overbuilt for its purpose perhaps more so than any other ML rifle. It is based on the TC Encore frame that is rated for magnum center fire rifle cartridges at pressures that no rational charge of any black powder or substitute can come close to. Not saying that this is a smokeless powder ML because it is not just saying that it is way overbuilt for its intended purpose.
Now to get down to loading this beast!!! First as usual a little internet research turned up absolutely nothing on shooting full caliber cast conical bullets in the 209x50, nothing. Second and also as usual I would be on my own in this endeavor. So be it then there is but one way to learn and that is to do! Having had some previous experience with the White rifles in 50 caliber and some of the died in the wool Dirty White Boys I decided to go with what worked so well in the White rifles namely the 460 NEx designed by said DWB group cast in pure soft lead at BHN-5. This first try resulted in total failure in the inability to consistently hit a 3'x3' target backer. BUMMER!!! My response to this was to sell the rifle because I don't want to own a rifle that will not shoot my bullets. With that into the shop it went on display for sale.
After about a year with no sale and after a bit more research on shooting these rifles and learning that other folks are getting phenomenal results with these shooting sabot bullets I surrendered to the idea that I may have to go that rout to use this rifle. Some amount of plastic sabots were procured via the internet and of course true to fashion these were the cheapest ones we could find. We learned that two types are available one for 44 caliber and one for 45 caliber hand gun bullets. We went with 45 because of an excellent selection of different weights and designs in our inventory. In this I may have to consume some bit of crow in having to buy the sabots but by golly I will still shoot my bullets in them.
So now we are at the second attempt to get this rifle to shoot and shoot it did. BINGO that was it!!! Its now doing an honest 4 MOA or maybe a bit better at 100 yards using the factory sights.
Another thing discovered is that the word -magnum- stamped on the barrel is there for good reason as adding to powder charges from my usual 70gn starting load just kept improving results and 100gn charges of powder with a 300gn Keith bullet in sabot were beginning to show results that after the first go with this rifle I thought impossible. So here we are in mid summer 2019 and a long time to go until hunting season with a good supply of the purchased black three petal sabots and plenty of 300gn Keith bullets to fit them. All is ready, BUT !
There always seems to be a but! This but is that after having gotten such good results in our 451 Gibbs rifle with hardened alloyed bullets I fell into my usual dangerous pattern of thinking. What if, I questioned myself what if we tried HARD full caliber conical bullets in that Encore? I am sure dear reader you can guess where this is going and you are correct. When speaking of lead alloyed bullets hard is a relative term. There is hard like BHN-15 and then there is hard like BHN-25. How hard for this would be the question. At best I would venture a guess so went with our standard soft alloy 98% lead to 2% antimony quenched at BHN-15. After casting and waiting a day for them to harden I had second thoughts that maybe BHN-15 would be too hard and maybe I should have just gone with air cooled at BHN-9
Next session the third with this rifle proved that going with BHN-15 and a stiff magnum charge of 100gn of FFG black powder was a good choice. The 500gn bullet used gave enough resistance to moving and the 100gn powder charge gave enough kick in the butt that the two complimented each other resulting in accuracy at least equal to anything produced with the sabot bullets. Right there on the spot I did a little dance to celebrate my freedom from sabots, they are no longer needed! So accuracy achieved with the bullets of choice we are ready for hunting, but!
Dang there is that but again and another potentially dangerous thinking session. Over the years on many occasions I have witnessed jacketed bullets of bore not groove diameter obturating sufficiently to produce good accuracy. I have read about it in DR. Franklin Mann's book "" The Bullets Flight"" In working with the DWB's I had some small amount of experience with the use of annealed gas checks in the White rifles. This pattern of thought of course compelled me to try shooting full caliber gas checked bullets in the TC Encore rifle. The Magnum stamping on the rifle pushed me beyond resistance to these thoughts.
Previous experience with this rifle has shown that even with a clean bore it will not accept a projectile larger in diameter than .501" . Looking through our mold list I found we have a seemingly perfect candidate for this test a custom 450gn designed for the 500 S&W cartridge. I remembered this being quite accurate in the 500 S&W sized to .501" diameter. So going with the same BHN-15 alloy that worked so well with the plain base bullets in this rifle and fitting some annealed gas checks sized to .501" and lubed with our NASA lube we were ready for session #4. Right away we learned that .501" diameter was good in the clean bore with just enough resistance that it will not slide off the powder when the muzzle is pointed down but in a slightly fouled bore it required a .500" diameter to seat with undue pressure on the rod.
As for accuracy results one could not ask for more. Dare I even think that some clustered into 2 moa ! I will not claim it for sure but it is not far from truth. It just keeps getting better ! So here we are again waiting for hunting season. This time we are ready, no buts! This is a situation I strive for with all my hunting rifles to have multiple choices of bullets and loads but all equal in accuracy.
This has been a learning experience not just in finding what this rifle will shoot acceptably well but also in re-learning that if at first you don't succeed try try again. So where am I in my learning curve with this rifle? Who knows? Only time will tell. Perhaps still at the beginning? I hope so !
These displays of human stupidity generally result in many wounded elk as well as human injuries leading to still more stupidity. For this reason about two years ago our F&G department has designated the state land near me as a muzzle loader or archery area only. It was at this time and for that reason that my lovely bride bought me a Thompson Center Encore rifle in the 209x50 caliber. My experience with all things TC has been that they are of high quality and this one is no different. If anything this gun is so overbuilt for its purpose perhaps more so than any other ML rifle. It is based on the TC Encore frame that is rated for magnum center fire rifle cartridges at pressures that no rational charge of any black powder or substitute can come close to. Not saying that this is a smokeless powder ML because it is not just saying that it is way overbuilt for its intended purpose.
Now to get down to loading this beast!!! First as usual a little internet research turned up absolutely nothing on shooting full caliber cast conical bullets in the 209x50, nothing. Second and also as usual I would be on my own in this endeavor. So be it then there is but one way to learn and that is to do! Having had some previous experience with the White rifles in 50 caliber and some of the died in the wool Dirty White Boys I decided to go with what worked so well in the White rifles namely the 460 NEx designed by said DWB group cast in pure soft lead at BHN-5. This first try resulted in total failure in the inability to consistently hit a 3'x3' target backer. BUMMER!!! My response to this was to sell the rifle because I don't want to own a rifle that will not shoot my bullets. With that into the shop it went on display for sale.
After about a year with no sale and after a bit more research on shooting these rifles and learning that other folks are getting phenomenal results with these shooting sabot bullets I surrendered to the idea that I may have to go that rout to use this rifle. Some amount of plastic sabots were procured via the internet and of course true to fashion these were the cheapest ones we could find. We learned that two types are available one for 44 caliber and one for 45 caliber hand gun bullets. We went with 45 because of an excellent selection of different weights and designs in our inventory. In this I may have to consume some bit of crow in having to buy the sabots but by golly I will still shoot my bullets in them.
So now we are at the second attempt to get this rifle to shoot and shoot it did. BINGO that was it!!! Its now doing an honest 4 MOA or maybe a bit better at 100 yards using the factory sights.
Another thing discovered is that the word -magnum- stamped on the barrel is there for good reason as adding to powder charges from my usual 70gn starting load just kept improving results and 100gn charges of powder with a 300gn Keith bullet in sabot were beginning to show results that after the first go with this rifle I thought impossible. So here we are in mid summer 2019 and a long time to go until hunting season with a good supply of the purchased black three petal sabots and plenty of 300gn Keith bullets to fit them. All is ready, BUT !
There always seems to be a but! This but is that after having gotten such good results in our 451 Gibbs rifle with hardened alloyed bullets I fell into my usual dangerous pattern of thinking. What if, I questioned myself what if we tried HARD full caliber conical bullets in that Encore? I am sure dear reader you can guess where this is going and you are correct. When speaking of lead alloyed bullets hard is a relative term. There is hard like BHN-15 and then there is hard like BHN-25. How hard for this would be the question. At best I would venture a guess so went with our standard soft alloy 98% lead to 2% antimony quenched at BHN-15. After casting and waiting a day for them to harden I had second thoughts that maybe BHN-15 would be too hard and maybe I should have just gone with air cooled at BHN-9
Next session the third with this rifle proved that going with BHN-15 and a stiff magnum charge of 100gn of FFG black powder was a good choice. The 500gn bullet used gave enough resistance to moving and the 100gn powder charge gave enough kick in the butt that the two complimented each other resulting in accuracy at least equal to anything produced with the sabot bullets. Right there on the spot I did a little dance to celebrate my freedom from sabots, they are no longer needed! So accuracy achieved with the bullets of choice we are ready for hunting, but!
Dang there is that but again and another potentially dangerous thinking session. Over the years on many occasions I have witnessed jacketed bullets of bore not groove diameter obturating sufficiently to produce good accuracy. I have read about it in DR. Franklin Mann's book "" The Bullets Flight"" In working with the DWB's I had some small amount of experience with the use of annealed gas checks in the White rifles. This pattern of thought of course compelled me to try shooting full caliber gas checked bullets in the TC Encore rifle. The Magnum stamping on the rifle pushed me beyond resistance to these thoughts.
Previous experience with this rifle has shown that even with a clean bore it will not accept a projectile larger in diameter than .501" . Looking through our mold list I found we have a seemingly perfect candidate for this test a custom 450gn designed for the 500 S&W cartridge. I remembered this being quite accurate in the 500 S&W sized to .501" diameter. So going with the same BHN-15 alloy that worked so well with the plain base bullets in this rifle and fitting some annealed gas checks sized to .501" and lubed with our NASA lube we were ready for session #4. Right away we learned that .501" diameter was good in the clean bore with just enough resistance that it will not slide off the powder when the muzzle is pointed down but in a slightly fouled bore it required a .500" diameter to seat with undue pressure on the rod.
As for accuracy results one could not ask for more. Dare I even think that some clustered into 2 moa ! I will not claim it for sure but it is not far from truth. It just keeps getting better ! So here we are again waiting for hunting season. This time we are ready, no buts! This is a situation I strive for with all my hunting rifles to have multiple choices of bullets and loads but all equal in accuracy.
This has been a learning experience not just in finding what this rifle will shoot acceptably well but also in re-learning that if at first you don't succeed try try again. So where am I in my learning curve with this rifle? Who knows? Only time will tell. Perhaps still at the beginning? I hope so !