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Post by Bullshop on May 13, 2018 19:43:59 GMT -7
Finally had a break in bullet orders enough to get out and do some shooting of my own. We are now offering paper patch bullets on auction at Gun Broker so have been wanting to do some testing of the different types of PP bullets we are offering. In the previous thread about PP I was working with a non -conventional PP design that is well adapted to lever guns. This time I am testing conventional smooth sided, tapered, cup based bullets. I am testing two types of 45 caliber PP bullets one casts a .444" diameter at the base and the other casts at .451" at the base. The .444" is intended to be patched to bore diameter while the .451" is intended to be patched tom groove diameter. Both molds are adjustable for weight and both are set to drop a 510gn bullet in our standard soft alloy of 98% lead to 2% antimony.
I am working with two weights of cotton bond paper 9lb. and 16lb. When the .444" base bullet is patched with 9lb it measures .451" at the base and .444" at the leading edge of a patch cut to 1" tall with a 1/4" overlap at the base. When patched with 16lb paper the same bullet measures .457" at the base and .449" at the leading edge of the paper.
With the bullet that casts at .451" at the base when patched with 9lb paper it measures .458" at the base and .450" at the leading edge of the paper. When patched with 16lb it measures .463" at the base and .454" at the leading edge of the paper. This one patched with 16ld should be about right for my trapdoor with a .462" groove.
Today I made a trek to the hills for some long rang shooting with a Sharps 1874 in 45 2 4/10 " (45-90) I hung what is about a 24" square steel swinger painted black with a white center. This target showed up good in the sights out to 700 yards as long as the sun was shining. When a cloud was blocking the sun it was a bit tougher to see at the longer ranges.
I started the shooting at 400 yards and then using my ever so dependable Swarovski lazer located and marked 500, 600, and 700 yards from the target. My load today used the .444" base bullet patched with 16lb paper. The cartridge oal is quite long as these tapered bullets seat well into the rifling with little resistance. I was shooting a smokeless load consisting of 25gn Alliant #410 with the remainder of the case filled with Styrofoam packing popcorn to be slightly compressed with the seated bullet. Loads were put up in Starline cases trimmed to 2.395" and used RP 9 1/2 primers. Cases are fire formed and un-sized with a slight taper crimp applied with a 45-70 FL die after the bullets are seated.
Shooting results were very satisfying! Starting out with a guess for sight setting at 400 yards took a couple adjustments to get on but once the correct setting was found at 53 points ringing the 2'x2' steel became quite boring. The 100 yard zero for this load is 15 points so the correction to 400 yards was +38. There was a steady wind at maybe 7-8 mph but was diagonal so about half value and about 2.5 points corrected the wind quite nicely.
Moving back to 500 yards had about the same results as at 400 in that once I got the correction dialed in at 68 points I was consistently dinging the steel. At that point the target needed re painted as it was getting a little fuzzy in the sights.
Painting accomplished it was time to jump on back to 600 yards. The freshly painted target still nicely visible in the sights I found the correction to be an 84 point reading on the staff. It took about three tries but once I got that setting I rang the steel 4 in a row so decided to drop back again to 700 yards
Now it was getting quite some harder to see that smallish target at 700 yards and too boot some clouds had moved in and it was beginning to sprinkle. I was getting a little bit nervous as I was on a dirt farm road and when wet these roads turn into greasy gumbo and I have in the past had to leave the vehicle and walk out and I accept that I am getting too old for that.
Anyhoo even under duress I managed to get the range in a few shots. The 700 yard range required a sight setting of 95 points to get on. My hits at 700 were not nearly as consistent as the shorter ranges but my misses were right on the fringes of what was now getting hard to distinguish in the sights.
Another task accomplished today was to get range measurements for what I am hoping will be the first annual Billy Dixon long range buffalo shoot. I am working on getting a 4'x8' steel target set in the same location and from a spot near the road that any vehicle can drive to on a county road it is an honest 1200 yards to where the buffalo gong will stand. I plan to announce the shoot here and all are invited. We will have smaller practice targets at different ranges but the big cahoona the black steel buffalo will be at 1200 yards.
Best get yer irons tuned up boys and wait for the call to Dell MT. I don't expect more than a couple locals but who knows it might turn into something. That is exactly how the Quigley shoot started and now its an international event. Quigley is on Fathers day and though I would like to wont schedule the same weekend but likely sometime shortly after.
Sounds like fun !
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Post by shootist---Gary on May 16, 2018 11:36:42 GMT -7
Daniel, the Billy Dixon Shoot sounds very interesting. I have read about his feat of marksmanship. There have been many skeptics over the years, but a few years ago, using military Radar & ballistics equipment at the Yuma Proving Grounds. it was proven that the shot would not have been just a lucky shot, by a person of his capabilities, but was in fact very possible. The article that I read completely explained the calculations used to set up the shot that duplicated Dixon's shot. I just found the article in Mike Venturino's book "Shooting Buffalo Rifles of the Old West", pages 233, 234, & 235. There was also an article about it in the August 11, 2016 True West Magazine, written by Phil Spangenberger.
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Post by Bullshop on May 16, 2018 14:06:16 GMT -7
The steel buffalo is now in place. It has the potential for the full 1500 yards of the Dixon shot. The Dixon shot was at a group of mounted men so the dot in his sight may have been larger than our 4'x8' steel plate. I got it set up yesterday and painted it flat black with a white cross with about 6" white lines for the height and width of the plate. Dropping back to 1200 yards in good light it stands out well in the sights. At 1500 yards its pretty small but in direct sun light visible. When clouds move in it is hard to see with the naked eye not even looking through the sights.
With the lay of the land where I set it up it can be engaged at any range from zero to 1500 yards. I have my sight settings worked out from 400 to 700 at 100 yard increments. I hope to continue the same process all the way back to 1500 yards.
I think I have decided to go with Fathers day even though it will conflict with the Quigley shoot I doubt either one will affect the attendance of the other for our first annual. If in the future it grows we can then adjust the date. If not as usual it will be just me doing what I love. I generally don't need an audience to have fun shooting but it sure would be nice to have a spotter. With nearly a five second time of flight its not impossible to spot for yourself though if your set up for it.
I know the Adobe Wall site has been surveyed and the range from the walls to the bluff determined to be 1500 yards. Some sceptics say that they surveyed the wrong bluff and the shot couldn't have been over 1200 yards so either way we have it covered. Regardless of what happened there on that day in our time it is for a shooter immensely enjoyable to shoot our black powder cartridge guns at extreme ranges in attempt to hit the smallest size target we can see through the sight. 4'x8' at 1500 yards is small and about as small as one can see through the sights. Regardless of how the shooting goes I have no doubt it will be fun and interesting.
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Post by missionary on May 17, 2018 5:39:09 GMT -7
Good morning Dan Thank you again for another good write up.. Does look like you are well on the way to popping long and far. 525 yds is the furthest we have shot our Roller in 45-70.... but it is long throated so holds near 90 grains of 3F. How long is the staff on the Sharps ? Is your barrel a 30" or is it longer... Our roller is a 33" so I do think a bit longer staff will be needed. Wonder how a 38-95 with a 330 grainer would fair  Have only shot that to 200 yards so far... Wind may be the bigger issue with that lighter slug. |
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Post by Bullshop on May 17, 2018 7:53:28 GMT -7
G'Day Brother Mike
About the sight staff on my sharps I actually have two staffs that fit the same base. One is the medium range staff that is calibrated to 270 points but has only a usable travel of up to 200 points. The tall long range staff is calibrated to 460 points but has a usable travel of about 400 points. This is on a Soul type base with about 20 points on either side of zero for windage.
These sights are read in points even though some folks refer to them as minutes. With a very specific sight radius they may well be minutes but that will only be true at one specific sight spacing. My barrel is 27" from breach to muzzle so with the shorter sight radius the per point value for my rifle is greater than for a longer barrel with longer sight radius. This is why with a sight setting of only 95 points out of a usable 200 points on the mid range staff I am getting to 700 yards with that setting. At 700 yards with a 95 point setting that leaves me with 105 points of usable travel left on the mid range staff. When I run out of travel on the mid range staff and go to the tall long range staff I will be adding another 200 usable points of elevation to the max of the mid range staff. I am not sure exactly how far out that will get me but what I do know is that my fairly short sight radius coupled with the usable 400 points elevation of the tall staff it will be long. Long enough to pull off the Dixon shot I don't know but I think so.
I have to wonder about the actual Dixon shot and what sight he was using. I believe for the most part buffalo hunters didn't want frail target sights in the field so they depended on the original Laurence type barrel mounted sight that were normally provided as stock sights on Sharps rifles. The Laurence sight was a standard V-notch rear in the down position that could be flipped up to a moderately tall staff with an indexed slider with V-notch. This sight was durable so preferred in the field and since it was forward barrel mounted the sight radius was quite short which would have the effect of offering very long range for the full value of the sight. I suspect that this is the type of sight Dixon used and of experience he had to add some elevation by holding at some point of the barrel well below the front sight level with the V-notch of the rear sight. The inclination to do so would have come from experience and the exact hold would have been very imprecise and accounted for the luck factor he himself referred to as a """ SCRATCH SHOT """
With your 33" barrel with wide sight spacing if the rear sight is tang mounted it will require a very tall staff. Please though don't let that restrict you from joining the fun because I expect we will be shooting at all ranges and it will be a great opportunity to learn what your rifles capabilities are as well as recording some good dope on sight settings.
I think your 38-95-330 has all the potential to do well as long as the bullet is not flat nose and your rifling twist rate is adequate to keep your bullets spinning on center of axis to the full range. The actual weight of the projectile is less critical than the projectiles ballistic coefficient. A 38 cal 330gn bullet with BC of 500 will fly the same ark and wind drift as a 500gn 45 cal bullet with a BC of 500 if both are started at the same velocity. A flat nose bullet greatly reduces the BC over a round nose of the same weight and more efficient nose shapes yield a higher BC.
I am trying to get set up to spot for myself because even though all are invited I suspect I may be the only attendee. It is a doable arrangement with spotting scope set so that you can quickly swing from gun to scope in the nearly 5 second time of flight for the bullet to travel the full 1500 yards. At that range bullet strikes in the dirt are pretty hard to see with the naked eye. When you can see them though and when its dry which it most often is here the dust cloud drift speed and angle is a huge help in reading the wind at the target.
Wind at the target is perhaps a moot point because shooting up this valley that has ravines coming into it at different intervals and from each side each often times seemingly having its own wind direction. Every time that bullet in flight passes one of these ravines it is getting nudged in a different direction that we can not see or read. Interesting Huh !!! Easy to understand why Mr. Dixon knowing that other real shooters would well understand what he meant when called it a "" scratch shot"" I know I do.
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Post by Bullshop on May 27, 2018 10:00:49 GMT -7
Yesterday I and my two official spotters went to add a few more 100 yard increments to our sight dope for the 1500 yard steel buffalo. My spotters Joy age 9 and Ahralee age 6 were happy to help and did a fine job of spotting ad calling bullet strikes.
The day before on Friday I had met up with a fine gentleman over in Twin bridges that gave me a great deal on some 45-90 stuff, brass, bullets, loading dies, drop tube, wads, as well as the Bushnell spotting scope that my girls used yesterday to good effect.
BTW Twin Bridges is where the Beaverhead river and the Big Hole river come together to form the Jefferson river. The Jefferson, the Madison, and the Galeton rivers come together at Three Forks to form the headwaters of the mighty Missouri. My property has about 250 yards of river frontage of the Red Rock river that is a tributary of the Beaverhead river. Any that follow my ramblings have read about The Reapers Roost which is my shooting perch in a large cottonwood on the river bank on my property.
Anyway we made further progress yesterday as well as making a discovery that needs correcting. The progress is that we now have sight dope from 400 yards to 1000 yards in 100 yard increments. Yesterday we added from 700 to 1000 yards. To get to 1000 yards required a setting of 135 points on my midrange staff with a total usable travel of 200 points. I am guessing I will run out of sight adjustment somewhere around 1300 yards and have to go to the tall staff with 400 points of usable travel.
As we progressed yesterday we made some discoveries. One discovery is that at about 1250 fps muzzle velocity of the bullet it takes a long time for the sound of a hit at 1000 yards to return to the shooting position after the sound of the shot. A couple times we looked at each other and began to call a miss just as the solid whack of the 500gn bullet hitting the steel buffalo returned to be heard.
Secondly we learned that at these longer ranges that extreme muzzle velocities spreads higher than in the teens are having far more effect on bullet impact than at the shorter ranges. At about 800 yards it was becoming more apparent and at 1000 pronounced. I can now see that to hit with anything close to consistency at 1500 yards muzzle velocity spreads are going to have to be tight.
A third discovery we made yesterday that because of my poor hearing I could not have made alone was that for an unknown certainty but with a suspicion is that with the .444" cast diameter paper patch bullets I have been using with 16lb paper patched to .458" diameter apparently with the smokeless powder load I am using are not all making a positive gas seal in the barrel. I had been noticing that a small percentage of shots seemed to have less of a crack to the report as well as less recoil and that these shots seemed to be falling low of the target. One shot that seemed far out of the norm for sound and recoil went about 10 feet low. When Joy told me that the shots that were going low were making a high pitch whistling sound it became clear as to what was happening. The whistling sound was beyond my hearing range so having someone there that could hear it was a plus. I had been thinking that the off shots might just be my poor shooting!
My plan at this point is to stay with the smokless load but go with the PP bullet that has the as cast diameter of .451" and see if that solves the wide velocity spreads being I believe cause by the inconsistent gas seal of the smaller diameter bullets with the smokeless powder load. When we returned home yesterday I chronographed the remainder of the ammo and even though they were grouping well at 100 yards I got quite an extreme velocity spread within an 11 shot string with a high of 1272 and a low of 1098. Most were not that wide and the 1098 was very noticeably lower recoil and a totally different report sound and that one shot went several inches low of the rest even at only 100 yards.
Next time out I will try the .451" as cast diameter bullets patched with 16lb cotton bond paper but sized to .458". My Sharps is re-barreled and chambered so tightly that it will not accept a bullet any larger in diameter than .458" diameter in the Starline brass that I am using. I had time yesterday evening to try some ammo with this bullet so patched and shooting at 100 yards it was grouping very pleasingly well but from past experience I will not now judge a loads long range potential by its 100 yard grouping.
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Post by Bullshop on Jun 1, 2018 12:01:48 GMT -7
I have not been back out to the steel buffalo yet since the last outing with the inconsistent load. I have however substituted bullets going from the Kal-Tool mold that drops a .444" diameter bullet to the Ballard mold that drops a .451" diameter bullet and that change seems to have made a big difference in load uniformity. Going with the same load of 27gn of Alliant #410 is giving very close to 1350 fps average with a 15 fps standard deviation. That is much better but would rather see an SD in single digits for extreme range shooting. If I cant refine the number down I think I may try a duplex black powder load with a smokeless kicker charge to see if I can get extreme velocity spread down in the teens as with this current load its about 30 fps.
The PP bullets I have been using are from molds made by Kal-Tool from Canada a quality mold and one made by Tom Ballard not too far from me in Clancy Montana. Tom is now well on in years and no longer making molds so the few molds I have from him are treasures.
Both are tapered smooth sided adjustable for weight designs with the Kal-Tool dropping at .444" at the cup base and the Ballard dropping at .451" at the cup base. I have had good results with the Kal-Tool in the past but using black powder as a fuel. Even patched with 9lb onion skin paper to only .451" diameter at the base it was upsetting enough to fill the groove of my old TD Springfield and shoot very well indeed. The really good thing about shooting this type of undersize bullet is that it easily seats into the barrel at any cartridge length or will even completely breach seat if wanted. This leaves all the case volume available for powder so even in a 45-70 case its easy to get a 45-90 powder charge with the bullet seated just far enough into the case to hold it. There in I believe lies the issue I was having with the Kal-Tool bullet that with the smokeless powder I was using it was not consistently giving enough obturation of the bullet base so ballistic uniformity was poor at best. Now Using the Ballard design that as cast is bore diameter and patched to groove diameter the ballistic uniformity is much improved.
As soon as it dries up some from all the rain we are getting I want to get out and see what kind of dispersion I will get at 1000 yards with a 15 fps SD. I just don't think that will cut it when I finally work my way back to the full 1500 yard Billy Dixon shot so do see some load development in the near future. I have also been shooting the NEI PP design I wrote about on this forum in use for lever guns and it is a wonderfully accurate design but I think perhaps not in the same BC class as these smooth sided designs. If I run out of time before the intended date of the shoot Fathers day working with the PP bullets I may go back to a grease groove bullet and to one of the most ballisticly consistent loads I have ever developed a duplex smokeless powder load that holds extreme velocity spreads very near single digits. As noted earlier this type of load is not compatible with PP bullets so is out for PP with undersize bullets and only usable with bullet diameters not smaller than groove diameter. I want to use smooth sided PP for the higher BC but if it is at the expense of poor ballistic uniformity it becomes a moot point.
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Post by Bullshop on Jun 2, 2018 19:09:27 GMT -7
My two spotters and I and even BS Mom managed a short trip to the steel buffalo today. I wanted to at least confirm that the Ballard bullets were going to eliminate the problem I was having last time out with the Kal-Tool bullets. Sure enough there were no more whistling bullets with the Ballard bullet design.
My spotters had to be bribed this time and were requesting the 22 hornet go with to shoot at some gophers. I agreed to that and Joy was burning through a 50 round box is short order. She was shooting the much to her liking very light weight and trim little Walther and doing some fine shooting off crossed sticks. She was shooting a load using the 52gn CBE bullet from our friends down under with a charge of 7.7gn of Alliant #410 and the RP 1 1/2 primer. Very accurate at about 2200 fps and merdifferous on gophers.
Anyway back to the steel buffalo We started out at the 1000 yard line to confirm the sight setting of 135 points that we had recorded last time out but were not sure because of the ammo issue we were having. Set sight to 135 points and my back to the front tire of our rusty old Nissan pick up and for end tip of the 74 Sharps on the cross sticks and first shot a hit, second shot a hit, and third shot I called high and Joy confirmed just over the top, good nuf !
We took a break to walk up and do a fresh paint job on the target which was getting hard to see because we ran out of paint the first time to get full coverage. We all started out but didn't all make it to the target. Mom made it 700 yards to the water troth and decided that was enough for her for a first time out in a good long spell. OK so Ahralee, Joy and I made way to the target and the girls did a fine job of applying a full coverage paint job to the target.
Moving back down the valley and moving the PU to the 1100 yard mark we could see the freshly painted buffalo standing out proud and bright.
Corrections for 100 yard increments had been running about 12 points so this time going from 1000 to 1100 I took a wag of a 15 point gain for that range and was delighted with a first shot hit. A few more shots netted a couple hits and a couple misses. I think the 30 fps extreme velocity spread is rearing its ugly head now. I believe to have a chance at 1500 yards I will have to find a load that at least cuts that ES in have.
While we were there we roughly located what will be the 1200 yard point that I hope to fire next time out and just to be sure we can get the full 1500 yards measured the farthest usable point before the ridge drops away to block the view of the target. I used a good size rock near the ridge top to point the Swarovski range finder from the 1100 yard mark and it registered precisely 400 yards BINGO !!!! We can do this !!! On our way headed home I stopped the truck at the 1500 yard ridge and climbed to have a look to be sure. Well its a glorious view of the steel buffalo standing proud on the distant ridge. Standing there looking at what is now just a dot but a pretty well defined dot I cant help but feel the hopelessness Mr. Dixon must have been feeling when he made his scratch shot. It does look to be a nearly impossible shot but I wont have near the pressure he must have had knowing that for the handful of buffalo hunters a Adobe Walls that day it amounted to a life or death shot.
OH yea, I almost forgot to add that the Sharps shooting came to an abrupt end yesterday when the sight insert of my front sight was lost. Evidently the threaded retainer came loose and the insert was ejected in recoil and we could not find it. Let this be a warning especially for those that travel some distance to shoot, BRING A SPARE !
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Post by Bullshop on Jun 10, 2018 17:33:27 GMT -7
Today after locating a new front sight insert we went out to the steel buffalo to try and make further progress in our goal of making the famous or as I am learning infamous Billy Dixon shot with BPCR at 1500 yards. Today was tough with a steady variable wind of about 10 to 20 mph at about 1 to 2 o'clock. We had rain last night so there was no dust to help spot bullet strikes. Joy was having a tough time spotting hits from the 1200 yard line. Of about 7 shots taken she only spotted one and called it correctly to the right. I took another WAG and added 17 points from my corrected 1100 yard setting of 155 points. That seems to have been about right for elevation from the 1200 yard line because as we found when we drove to the target to re paint the 1100 yard hits and look for the bullet strikes from today we found they were all in an area about the size of the target but about a target to a target and a half to the right. I had put in 25 points windage but was still landing bullets ten feet right although it looked like 172 point sight setting looks like they would have been on target had I gotten the windage correct. We decided that not being able to spot shots was not working good so we will wait for it to dry out some so there is some dust to spot from the bullet strike. I am fairly comfortable with the 172 point setting being good for 1200 yards but will try that range again to confirm after it dries out some. That may be a while as our weather forecast is for a winter storm warning with snow down to 6000 feet. My house is about 5900 feet. Dry will come though because basically we live in a high desert that gest hot and dry in the summer months. I did have an awakening today as Joy and I took the little Walther hornet to shoot gophers and also walk back to the next several ranges that I still have to shoot to log sight settings, 1300, 1400 , and 1500 yards. I did not realize it until today that the 1300 and 1400 yard ranges will put the shot very close to a two strand power line. My 1200 yard mark is a power pole from that line and I used that pole today as a back rest when I fired off crossed sticks. Moving back to the next two 100 yard intervals the terrain drops somewhat so puts the line of sight somewhere very near the power lines. For this reason I doubt I will shoot from 1300 or 1400 yards. All is not lost though as between 1400 and 1500 yards is a very steep climb for the full 100 yards. Joy and I climbed the ridge to the large rock I had used my range finder on to mark 1500 yards. From that vantage point we are well above the power lines so there will be no danger of hitting them. What this means though is that next time out I will be going for broke at the full 1500 yards without the luxury of walking my shots from 100 yard intervals. Next time out I will be jumping from 1200 yards to 1500 yards. As I gain experience with this shooting of the steel buffalo I am gaining in appreciation and awh at the probability of the one shot hit that Billy Dixon made that day to save his and the lives of the other hunters there. If I hit this thing at all and eventually I believe I will but if/when I do it will be after many shots fired to determine sight settings as well as many shots fired as misses after I have those sight settings. With that understanding how can I be anything but amazed and awed at the ability and intimate relationship the man had to have had with his rifle! As I understand on that day Mr. Dixon used a borrowed rifle but that detracted not one whit from the shooting experience he had to have had to have a prayer of pulling off that shot. Today I brought a camera along and took two pictures. One is looking at the target from 1200 yards and the other is turning 180* and is of the rock at the ridge top at 1500 yards. Looking at the pictures I hope to get Tina to put on here you might get an idea of how those buffalo hunters felt their chances were of Billy Dixon making that shot. In the first pic the target is at the top of the ridge circled and in the second pic the 1500 yard shooting point is at the top of the ridge circled both pics taken from the 1200 yard point. Click on the pictures to enlarge. Attachments:
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Post by Bullshop on Jun 12, 2018 9:28:20 GMT -7
Well we are about ready for the big day next week end. So far only one other shooter has signed on but that matters not in the scope of my personal goal. In preperation we have one final chore which is to clear a shooting area large enough for a shooter and a spotter at the 1500 yard line because last week end when Joy and I walked to the top of the ridge we found it to be completely covered in prickly pear cactus. We will try to get back there before the week end and get that chore done. Good thing Billy Dixon didn't have to deal with cactus to make his shot !
As for my rifle I am out of time to try and develop a load with a tighter ES so am going with the Ballard paper patch bullet and the smokeless load with Alliant #410 powder. I have switched to the tall sight staff now but have not shot with it yet. The two staffs appear identical accept for height the mid range having about 200 usable points of travel and the long range having about 400. I have roughly calculated from the sight settings of the previous ranges that a setting of somewhere about 230 points should be close and that is what I have decided to go with. The tall staff is now installed and set at 230 and I have to admit I am feeling more than a little bit excited.
I am hoping for favorable weather come this week end. I never recorded a hit at the farthest range fired so far at 1200 yards because of the wind and the fact the Joy just could not see the bullet strikes to call them. I feel pretty confident that I would have scored a hit at 1200 if we could have spotted hits and had some idea of how to correct sight settings. This weekend there will be more eyes watching so should have a better chance of spotting hits and making sight corrections.
Its likely no big deal for the folks that are versed in this type long range shooting with BPCR like at the MT LR championships in Forsyth near where they shoot the Quigley match but for me just a dumb dumb shooting alone out in a cow pasture it is a big deal and something I have wanted to do for a long time. The Billy Dixon shot has been something of a controversy for about 130 years and is no less so now than it was then when it took place. It is one of those remarkable accomplishments that never seem to loose their luster for people that find such feats beyond just interesting and remarkable and desire to make a similar accomplishment just for personal satisfaction. Such an accomplishment seems to help the mind travel back to a time and place long gone and in some way live the experience with those souls tormented by a situation seemingly beyond their ability to defend life and limb but by literally taking the long shot emerged victors in what seemed a hopeless situation.
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Post by todddoyka on Jun 12, 2018 10:53:14 GMT -7
25+ years ago, i have shot my 45-70(smokeless powder, 405gr rem bullet and scoped) to a whopping 350 yards. God only knows how many tries to hit it, but i did. mr dixon i ain't!!!  i've always wanted to shoot black powder cartridges but i never did. heck, i've never paper patched either. its good to see a "dumb dumb" (i'd hate to see what i am!!!  ) doing bp cartridges. and its better to see a guy doing it, "just because i can". |
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Post by Bullshop on Jun 18, 2018 7:47:11 GMT -7
Well here we are a day after the first annual Billy Dixon shoot and I am well not really sad but a little disappointed to have to report that no hits were made from the 1500 yard line and that if the fate of those hunters at Adobe Walls on that long ago day rested with the shooters that attended this shoot would have been much different.
Conditions for yesterdays shooting were poor. It has been raining for a couple days and yesterday was overcast and dark making visibility of the target at times very poor. It seemed that peering through the sight just when it seemed like you had a sight picture the target would disappear so you had to start the sight alignment process over again and each shot seemed to go like that so patience was the name of the game at the shooting line waiting for a reasonable focus of what seemed to be the target.
I can say though that as for my WAG on a sight setting for elevation at 230 points was a darn good guess because that was within two points of what seemed to put bullets at what should have been center of target if the windage had been called correctly which it was not and never quite made.
Bullet strikes were landing about one and one half targets right and half a target low in what was about a two target area. Two points additional elevation put the bullets on the right flight path for elevation but still right by about a full target length, eight feet.
Slowly dialing in about two to three points of windage at a time I ended up with 30 points of windage which was putting me right on the fringed of the target still in the lower right corner but the misses at this point were closer to one foot off instead of ten to twelve feet off and that is about the time the rain moved in and we called it quits for the day.
There is now no doubt though that if we had had a wee bit more time and had visibility been even a little better because it couldn't have been much worse hits would have been made. As for judging the wind it was very interesting shooting up this valley with several small canyons entering from each side for the length of the valley each with its own idea of which way the wind should blow. From the shooting point I would call the wind variable at 8 to 12 mph but consistent at about 2:00. When we drove to the head of the valley to inspect for bullet strikes that because of the wet were very difficult to spot from the shooting line we found the wind to be what I would call about a steady 10 mph but at 9:00 so nearly the opposite direction than from the shooting line. These conditions held quite steady and I believe that had the rain not ended the shooting adding two to three more points windage would have yielded some hits.
The day has now come and gone for the first annual Billy Dixon shoot but the quest has not ended. Lord willing there will be other better days and the goal will be met and on the way to achieving that goal a lot of learning will have taken place to say nothing of the amount of fun involved in getting there.
I hope all reading of this adventure have enjoyed at least a fraction as much as I have because for me this has been a very pleasurable experience. God Bless all and hope, Lord willing ! to see you next year for the second annual Billy Dixon shoot.
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Post by Bullshop on Jun 19, 2018 7:30:05 GMT -7
I wanted to mention and ask opinions on an idea for next years Billy Dixon shoot. This year we just shot to learn what we could accomplish with no form of competition. An idea I have for next year to introduce a competitive element to the shoot is to begin the shoot at a pre determined range say 500 yards and continue to move back in 100 yard increments until we reach 1500 yards. There would be 8 shots from each range with the first 3 of 8 being allowed as spotters and the last 5 for score. If any of the 3 spotters are hits the shooter will have the option to begin his 5 shots for score starting with the first hit and scoring the next 4 consecutive shots and forgoing the remaining of the total of 8 allowed shots.
At the starting range of 500 yards a hit will score 1 point and at each progressive range a hit will score an additional 1 point so a hit at 500 is worth 1 point, at 600 is worth 2 points, at 700 is worth 3 points and so on until at the 1500 yard point a hit will have a score value of 10 points. That way we will have 5 shots for score at each range and as the difficulty factor increases with range so does the score value. With this type of scoring a shooter could miss all the closer ranges and win with a 1500 yard hit or a shooter could win without ever making a 1500 yard hit. That should make for quite an interesting competition! What do you all think about this? Comments pro or con are welcome and ideas for improvement are likewise welcome.
I am too old to be wishing my life away but this sounds like so much fun to me that I can hardly wait until next year.
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Post by remington416 on Jun 22, 2018 16:25:10 GMT -7
I thoroughly enjoyed the days events and the company. I can't imagine the pressure and thoughts that crossed Billy's mind while attempting this shot. I don't know about anyone else, but its almost as if my brain decides the best time to contemplate major life decisions is at 2am when we should be sleeping or those few seconds just before the trigger breaks, when you really should be focused on that front site. Apparently Billy's mind was appropriately focused at the time and mine was not. Dan, I read your ideas for next years shoot and think starting at 500 is a great idea. Maybe even 300 from standing or sitting with sticks? Do you think a semi long range revolver event would drum up much interest from area shooters? |
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Post by Bullshop on Jun 22, 2018 18:39:31 GMT -7
A revolver match would be interesting. Maybe something from 300 to 800 yards with the same point system as mentioned above. I might get back out there tomorrow as its my day off and see if I can get it done. If we hadn't gotten rained out Sunday I am pretty sure we would have got it as we were closing in on windage and elevation. I think about 3 more points windage would have put us on under the conditions we had. The only life decision I have ever had to make is to shoot or hold fire!
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Post by 450fuller on May 22, 2023 9:04:51 GMT -7
This is an excellent thread-dating back to 2018, but it is timeless as a "scratch shot". Need some PP molds that will
duplicate your experience as to increased case capacity/handle different paper weights for
two different rifles. One is an 1885 original SS ; the other is a S. Sharps. Both in 45 2.1 caliber.
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Have only shot that to 200 yards so far... Wind may be the bigger issue with that lighter slug. 
i've always wanted to shoot black powder cartridges but i never did. heck, i've never paper patched either. its good to see a "dumb dumb" (i'd hate to see what i am!!! 
) doing bp cartridges. and its better to see a guy doing it, "just because i can". 