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Post by Junior on Oct 7, 2016 21:23:05 GMT -7
Finally back in Montana after being in Idaho for a couple months working. While I was down there I picked up a Ruger American Ranch in 300 Blackout. I'm finally able to play with the rifle a bit since I have a way to reload for it (Thanks to outside bear for the loaner dies).
One of the reasons I got the 300 blackout was for the small case capacity. I've always been a fan of cases that do a lot with very little powder. The other factor is the twist. With the 1 in 7 twist I can shoot what ever bullets may be laying around if I am too lazy to cast what I want. And the 3rd factory in case availability. Being on the 223 case, there is no shortage of cases that can be reformed, and there is plenty of already formed cases at very close to the same price as 223 cases. I've always liked the 32/20 but cases are getting very hard to find. I expect the ballistics of this cartridge to be much closer to the 7.62x39, which is also somewhat hard to find boxer primed cases for.
In this thread I will report my progress working up load date with Various bullets ranging from 110 grain up to 220 grain. I may do some testing with sabots if I get time as well.
The rifle has a Vortex Crossfire II scope mounted on it. I have shot about 60 rounds of jacketed ammo through the gun (All factory) and maybe 30 rounds of cast (Nothing real hard core, just threw some powder in and adjusted it to "That looks bout right"). I have gotten some somewhat promising results so far, with a couple sub MOA groups at 100 yards.
One note I would like to point out since its on the top of my head. I have some factory 300 blackout cases (Mostly Barnes) and some that I reformed out of 223. With the Lee dies, the factory brass has too thin on a neck to hold a .310" bullet tight enough to feed from the magazine without a very heavy crimp. My rifle has a fairly generous chamber and throat, and will chamber the reformed cases with up to a .314" bullet without turning the necks. I have not really tested the cases side by side yet, to see if one offers greater accuracy or not.
I have not found much for published data for the 300 blackout, although I know its out there. Any loads that I post in this thread should be taken with a grain of salt, since I am shooting a bolt action rifle, and the most common platform is the AR15. I know I also have a tendency to load on the hot side at times since I only shoot loads in the 1 gun that I loaded them for.
Hopefully I'll get to start in with the testing this weekend.
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Post by Junior on Oct 8, 2016 12:02:02 GMT -7
Ok, started testing today. Was not at all impressed with the accuracy I got, but that was not the point today. Today, I was testing cases. I mentioned before that the factory Barnes cases had almost no neck tension. Today, I tested a few cases, and although didn't get great accuracy, I narrowed down the case I will use for future testing, and now can start working on the accuracy.
The load may have been a bit on the hot side. Turns out "Bout there will do" might not be the most scientific way to develop a load.
The load being shot was 13.0 grains of IMR 4227 under a 200 grain NEI DD bullet sized to .309". This was ignited by a CCI BR4 primer. I'm not sure what the harness was on these bullets, as there was no note in with them, but I imagine it was around 15 BHN. None of the cases had a crimp. All cases has been fired and then neck sized.
I started with a clean barrel this morning and fired 7 rounds to get the scope sighted in, and foul the barrel. All groups were fired with 5 rounds at 100 yards, off of a bench using a Bipod for front rest and a sand bag in the rear.
The first cases tested were reformed Winchester 223 cases. My average velocity with these cases was 1478 FPS with a extreme spread of 49. Accuracy was poor with 2.85" group.
The second batch of cases were the factory Barnes 300 blackout cases. The velocity on this batch averaged 1473 FPS with the lowest extreme spread of anything I shot with only 16 FPS extreme spread. Unfortunately these cases shot terrible with a group of 3.81"
The final batch was a batch of reformed Lake City 223 cases. These gave me a average of 1463 FPS, but the highest extreme spread, with 52 FPS difference. These cases shot the best group though, with a group of 1.79", which I can live with for a first try.
So, from here on out, all loads will be using reformed LC 223 cases without the necks turned, unless other wise noted.
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Post by Junior on Oct 8, 2016 12:48:32 GMT -7
I dropped the charge of 4227 down to 10 grains, and then worked back up a little bit past my initial 13 grains and didn't see any better accuracy. It shot right about at 2 MOA. I did notice that 10.5 grains gave the lowest extreme spread with a high of 1251 FPS and a low of 1241 FPS. This was with a standard CCI #400 primer.
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Post by Junior on Oct 8, 2016 16:18:32 GMT -7
I shot up the rest of the 200 grain NEI bullets that I had today. I never got any pressure signs with the 4227, but gave up at 13.5 grains since I did not see any improvement in accuracy.
After the 4227, I grabbed a can of H110 off the shelf, and started at 9.5 grains. This is .1 grain higher then what Hodgeon shows on their site with a 208 grain bullet. This gave me a average velocity of 1207 FPS and a extreme spread of 36. When I swapped to H110 also swapped to a magnum primer, since I was getting about 100 FPS extreme spread using the standard primers. The 9.5gns shot a 2.16" group at 100 yards.
I worked up from there, and finally stopped at 15 grains. I'm not getting any flattened primers, or any pressure signs on the gun (Sticky bolt ect), and decided that 15 grains was enough since it was giving me a very impressive average velocity of 1737FPS and a 38 FPS extreme spread. I shot several groups with this charge trying different primers and cases, and the best group shot was a .87" with the Reformed LC 223 cases and the CCI #450 small rifle magnum. I averaged all groups together shot with the 15 grain charge, and came up with a average of 1.27"
Interesting note. During the testing on the 15 Grain charge, I shot one group with some ADI factory 300 blackout cases. These cases still held the cases loose enough that I could pull them out by hand, but still tighter then the Barnes cases held them. The ADI cases gave a average velocity of 1719, and extreme spread of 8, and shot a group of 1.06". I did add some crimp to these so I could feed them from the magazine.
The highest velocity that I achieved was with the 15 grains of H110 and was 1763 FPS. I could probably go a bit higher since the rifle was not showing pressure signs yet, but see no reason to. I will probably attempt to shoot a deer this fall with this rifle and load.
Now to go dig around for more bullets.
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Post by Junior on Oct 10, 2016 20:51:13 GMT -7
I got a chance to play with the 300 blackout a bit more today. Still shooting H110 I started at 18 grains with a 130gn speer HP. I worked my way up to 21 grains at which point I started stretching primer pockets. Backed off to 20 grains and found that I got my best accuracy with a standard CCI #400 small rifle primer, which shot a 5 round group of .47" with the factory barnes cases. I'm noticing that with H110 this rifle and cartridge likes loads at max, or very close to it. I shot one of these 130 grain HP bullets into a wood block and got quite a bit more penetration then I expected. I wouldn't hesitate to shoot a deer with either one of the loads I have worked up if it was closer then 200 yards. I didn't get a chance to chronograph this load yet, but hope to get a chance to soon.  |
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tom
Bullet Hole
Posts: 56 
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Post by tom on Oct 10, 2016 22:46:23 GMT -7
That's a pretty good looking mushroom.
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Post by Bullshop on Oct 15, 2016 8:24:56 GMT -7
I think that you will find that with cartridges that have a case volume that is compatible with the burn rate of H-110 that best accuracy is always found very close to the top end load with H-110. Performing best at near max pressure is a typical characteristic of H-110 powder.
Also in my experience H-110 has a very narrow window of application limited to top end loads and being very inflexible otherwise. It always seems to shoot best at very near 100% load density or slightly compressed in cases having moderate volume where H-110 is appropriate.
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jsh
Bullet Head
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Post by jsh on Oct 16, 2016 18:29:07 GMT -7
You can't compare the 7.62x39 to the 30x221. Hard to replace cubic inches, case capacity.
The 32-20 aka 30-20 is more in line with the 30x221, in MODERN guns only of course.
I fooled with the heavies in the 30x221 case for several seasons of IHMSA. It never did do anything to make me feel warm and fuzzy. 180 and 190 Sierras with a dose of AA#9 was what it likes best. FYI my very best brass was formed from 222, YMMV.
I had just acquired a 10" 30-20 TC barrel and was playing with it as well. I the. Started casting about this time. I got one of the RCBS Sil molds in 165 and never looked back. I started load work and ended up with AA#9 being my go to powder. Later on I got some of the WC820 that mirrored the #9. Buddy had some and it clocked like 2400.
Fast forward a year or so and I ended up with a BF in 30-20. A fantastic single shot imho. It liked the same loads, but with some different techniques.
Fast forward a few more years and I finally got my hands on a Buckeye Blackhawk 32-20/32 mag. I knew from the get go that my IHMSA bullet was going to be to long. I had a plain base Lee from one of the group buys years back that has worked very well in numerous 30 caliber guns and cartridges. A little tinkering and I went with lil gun and m getting 1500fps out of it from 6.5" barrel. Groups at 100m average 3-4".
I know you are thinking, what is the guy blabbing about the 32-20 for? All of the loads I came up with were based on and came from my initial work with the 221 case. I like the rim a lot more, user friendly in the single shot than the rimless, in a single shot.
Never did achieve speed or accuracy with 110/296 or either of the 4227's.
Jeff
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Post by Bullshop on Oct 16, 2016 18:51:53 GMT -7
How about the 680 powders like Win 680, WC-680, Accurate Arms 1680?
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Post by Junior on Oct 16, 2016 21:00:25 GMT -7
I want to toy with a few more powders when I get time, but haven't yet, nor do I have the powders on hand.
The one thing I like about the blackout is the twist, since I can shoot any weight bullet out of it. In my experience both the 32/20 and 7.62x39 are limited to about a 165gn bullet.
Plis, 32/20 brass is kinda hard to find. Older guys that have a stash have a advantage over the younger guys like me who did not get to stock up on supplies before Obama got into office.
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tom
Bullet Hole
Posts: 56
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Post by tom on Oct 17, 2016 2:39:45 GMT -7
Not that it matters, since you already have the 300 bo, but 32-20 is readily available. Starline is showing it as available for $111.00 for 500.
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jsh
Bullet Head
Posts: 14
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Post by jsh on Oct 17, 2016 15:21:01 GMT -7
I never had any 680 or 1680 to fool with, so I can't comment there.
Very true on the heavies using the short case(223). How is your magazine length when loading the heavy bullets?
FYI, to my understanding of the original concept of the 300 whisper and heavy bullets, the intention was for it to tumble rather than expand. As I recall it made a major mess of things.
I myself after doing a bit of studying on the heavy concept at sub sonic speeds, didn't care for the end results. So just me thinking out loud here,I would not get carried away loading a pile of them. The rainbow trajectory from a 14" barrel was not to my liking. Way more than any 45-70 I fooled with.
Misses going high or misses going low on steel critters were very hard to judge and call for the shooter. A call of a miss up or down 6", then what was thought to be proper dope used on the sights would result in another miss. I actually have hit the top edge and split bullets on the 3/8" thick Rams! I have seen Rams tipped forward so as to think it was a low hit, but actually just nicked the back side top edge of the target.
After a few matches of this nature and a lot of frustration I scrapped the sub sonic and went back to super sonic and all was well.
I think you could compare the 30x221 more to a modern version of the 30 Herret.
I sure miss Bob Milek every time I pick up a gun rag.
Jeff
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Post by Junior on Oct 17, 2016 18:51:20 GMT -7
I have shot a few of the 200gn bullets into wood blocks and am not getting any tumbling during penetration. I'm also running them over 1700 fps though, so that probably has something to do with it. I am getting quite a bit better accuracy with shorter bullets though.
I'm not shooting competition with this gun though, it's just something to play around with cheaper, since most of my other guns are large case capacity.
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jsh
Bullet Head
Posts: 14
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Post by jsh on Oct 18, 2016 14:54:14 GMT -7
I doubt you will see much tumble in a wood block. Flesh or one of the gel blocks with some bones thrown in, gives a good idea of what is going to happen. There are a lot of you tube clips that gave some useful info.
Totally understand your thoughts are on the smaller calibers. That is what got me into the 30/32's to begin with. I see and hear a lot of talk on some type of 25 in a straight wall. That would be interesting.
Never ever thought I would do away with a 22RF, but I have culled all but a few and went with 22 hornet and 17 hornet to satisfy my wants.
My 22 hornet cost me any where from .03-.35 to load, depending on what I want.
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Post by Junior on Oct 18, 2016 16:07:36 GMT -7
I have a 22 rifle and a 22 pistol, but hardly ever shoot them. I don't like loading 22s, or even 25s since I have big hands and don't do well with getting the small bullets lined up straight.
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Post by Bullshop on Oct 19, 2016 14:30:41 GMT -7
Bob Milek was also one of my favorite gun writers. He and Finn Ahgard toped my list.
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Post by Junior on Oct 24, 2016 21:40:54 GMT -7
300 blackout drew it's first blood today on a young mule deer doe.
The shot was 193 yards with the 130gn speer HP and 20gn H110. The doe was uphill from me facing me with her head pointed to the right. The bullet entered the eye, came out the back of the head and entered the spine about half way down, and came out the hind quarter. I'll get some photos of the damage when I get better phone signal so I can get them loaded.
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Post by Junior on Nov 2, 2016 15:13:12 GMT -7
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