mike
Bullet Hole
Posts: 65
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Post by mike on Mar 6, 2016 19:51:36 GMT -7
Mike, Okay, let's start a .44 Russian thread, black powder of course. I just loaded a batch with 20 grains of Olde Eynsford 2F under a 250 grain round nose bullet. The bullet used for these came from an old Ideal #429184 mold, billed as the original bullet for the .44 Russian. It has two lube grooves but no crimp groove. The case is simply crimped over the top of the forward driving band, much like the old .45 Colts and .44/40 bullets. This ammo hasn't been fired as yet but it will be fired in an Uberti copy of the S&W "last model" Russian, a gun that has performed very well with smokeless loads. I guess I just need more smoke... Shoot sharp, Mike
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Post by missionary on Mar 7, 2016 6:13:24 GMT -7
Good morning I will have to get me a case of OE. Looks like I am missing some fun. My last batch was loaded with Goex 3F probably near 4 or 6 years back. We are on a basic two year cycle here and up there. I know it was not last time up. Most my shooting 44 Russian is with two S&W New Model #3 44 Russians or a 44 Double Action 1st Model which is the first 44 Russian I bought many years ago in a small (now closed) LGS. A widow brought it in still inside an old cotton sock (loaded) after the demise of her husband. I walked in and there it sat on the counter. LGS owner looked at me and asked if I was interested. Fastest $200 I ever drew. I am not sure the mold I use. I know it is and old Ideal that drops 40-1 right around 250 grains. It may be a 429384. It looks like the bullet. Tried 2F Goex with cut down 44 Special brass and the velocity was barely 600 fps. From what I read it should have been better so I swapped to 3F. That bumped velocity up. Balloon Cases are definately the better case for BP or use 3F Goex. Have not used a card un these loads. They barely rough up a bullet base. At 25 yards when the sun is from behind the bullet can be observed flying down range the last several yards. Our range faces north so in the fall with the sun in the afternoon and the predominant west to east breeze the smoke puff gets blown away. I still would not want to get thumped with that chunk of 40-1 poking along at about 650 fps. The two #3's are the standard 6.5 inch barrel models nickled. Not collectors with flaking. One someone bored the cylinders to use 44 Special brass. But loaded with the same 44 Russian load they give a little more velocity and are several steps up in shooting fun. Thumb flip the latch and a little tug down on the barrel out come the cases. With a little practice the cases are easily dumped into a gallon bucket of Dawn soap water sitting on the table. 25 yard accuracy is about 3 inches from these two revolvers me standing two handed. Leaning on a post a bit better. The 50 yard 6 in gong me sitting in the dirt revolver two handed on my knees support is an easy "clunk" once the elevation and windage is remembered. At 50 yards the slug is running out of steam but still would hurt. Have one of the Uberti Russian models also. Origonal owner must have shot one box out of it and gave up. Bought it last time up and only shot my Unique load in it shorly before we returned. It should do better with 3F than the originals as the cylinder has no age wear. Should be a fun one. Mike in Peru
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mike
Bullet Hole
Posts: 65
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Post by mike on Mar 7, 2016 10:21:38 GMT -7
Mike, I had two original S&W New Model #3s some years ago. Then I foolishly thought I had no more interest in them. Ha!! But the Uberti I have now is a fine gun. I do wish Taylor's would make their Uberti copy of the New Model #3 Frontier in .44 Russian instead of just in .45 Colt. Actually that gun should be made in .44/40. I've told them if they would make the gun in .44/40 and in .44 Russian I'd simply have to get one of each. One of my old originals was a target model and those are some of the easiest to see pistol sights ever put on a revolver.
That was back in the days when you couldn't get ammo for the .44 Russian, at least not easily. I always found enough somehow. Now i'm using new Star Line brass. Yes, the solid head brass doesn't accept as much powder but that's okay.
By the way, I see that Uberti is now making a version of the old Colt SAA Flat-top. Dixie Gun Works has them available in .45 Colt and in .44/40. Hmmmm...
The bullets I'm using in my .44 Russians, and .44/40 too, are cast from 30-1 lead & tin. That is simply the alloy I use most of the time, for grease groove or paper patch. Shoot sharp, Mike
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Post by missionary on Mar 7, 2016 12:06:24 GMT -7
Something I should have added.. With the originals the cylinders will "slide back" a bit on the shaft. In that gap as much grease as can be squeezed in there helps keep the fouling from clogging up the cylinder turning. Back where the hand is a good dobber there will help keep fouling out of the lock work. I would do the same for the Uberti as much as possible. Have to go to Dixie site and wander about. They are always having interesting items available on the web. One day I trust I will get there. Bought a couple old firearms from them years back. I have used 30-1... but decided tin was getting more than I desired to fling down into the dirt. So 40-1 is what I use. Still fills out OK. Range scrap gets iffy obturating with small amounts of BP. As side note.. There was a big battle about 100 miles south of here between Chile and Peru. Bolivia did not show up. But on the battle field several S&W Model 3 American 1st Model revolvers and Henry rifles were found in 44 Henry. Probably officers private arms. These were on display at the local museum commemorating the battles of 1872-1875. Some what rusted having been out in the desert near 100 years before being found. Mike in Peru
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mike
Bullet Hole
Posts: 65
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Post by mike on Mar 7, 2016 12:29:35 GMT -7
Mike, Thanks for the hints about greasing the workings of the Uberti top-breaks. I'll have to be sure to do that. I also have one each of the Beretta Laramies, one in .38 Special and another in .45 Colt. Back in the '80s a very good friend of mine was Col. Rex Applegate and he was the nephew of Gus Peret, the exhibition shooter for Peters Cartridge Co. and (later) Remington. One of Gus's old sixguns was an original #3 S&W target model that had been lined to take the .38 Special. It was one of the old short cylinder versions, not the Frontier, so it required case-length wadcutter ammo for proper feeding. Memories of shooting that fine gun were too vivid and I jumped at the chance to get a "copy" of it by Beretta. That's just a very nice pop gun. Then the .45 caliber version came later in my hands and the .45 I have is sort of special, it is serial number 45.
Those two topbreaks plus the .44 Russian by Uberti will keep me pleased until Taylor's does come out with a New Model #3 Frontier in .44/40 and in .44 Russian. Don't take my words as any evidence that they will do such a thing, I'm just dreaming out loud.
The lead I use is already mixed, I buy it that way. When shooting long range with the Sharps rifles it pays to have use a consistent alloy and I get it from Buffalo Arms in Idaho, or from John Walters in Olkahoma. I really like doing business with Walters (the tin wad man) but often Buffalo Arms can deliver quicker. Like a lot of shooters, I don't order my lead alloy until I need it. Shoot sharp, Mike
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Post by missionary on Mar 7, 2016 18:42:45 GMT -7
I have only seen one #3 Target in person. Those are a very fine looking shooting instrument.
Buying good alloy for serious long range shooting is not a bad idea. My range scrap down here hardly varies as I am the only one who shoots and gigs at my little spot. So it has been very consistent over the last 25 years. Probably that lead has been "recycled" 5 times over all that time. need less to write my shooting is some what "rationed" down here.
Up north in East ILLinois the range scrap does vary but is just fine for the limited distance I have 300 yards is all that we have and I no longer shoot matches as there just are not many on Saturdays. But for when I do want to get serious at 300 I use 40-1 weighed out. One 41 pound batch will pretty much last me each 5 months north there. My PB comes from Danny. He worked for the phone company and had tons of cable sheating. Last time up he gave me another pile. I spend a couple days cutting off the solder joints and smelting the sheeting into ingots. Probably have enough till I am too old to handle recoil behind cross sticks. Mike in Peru
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mike
Bullet Hole
Posts: 65
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Post by mike on Mar 7, 2016 18:59:12 GMT -7
Mike, I shoot quite a bit of scrap lead too. One time over 30 years ago a partner and I went to an indoor range that allowed only cast bullets. We cleaned the place up for them and we got several pounds of lead to share. I never did test that for hardness. It was all sorts of bullets mixed in together, .22s, .38 wadcutters, and almost everything you could imaging. There was a high percentage of .22 rimfire bullets in the mess. All of that was melted down to become one big excellent mix. We cleaned it and then cast the good remains in biscuit tins, making good circular ingots. That lead lasted me for years and it was the very best revolver lead I ever used, firing most of it in my Colt .44/40. And even today I find myself picking up bullets that have hit the silhouette on the bpcr range. Other shooters give me funny looks while wondering what I'm doing because that is not a fast way of finding lead. I just tell them that I like to use lead that has already hit the targets because it's already trained! Shoot sharp, Mike
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