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Post by Junior on Jan 4, 2024 19:12:46 GMT -7
Ive been pretty much packing a 1911 as my full time side arm for a good while now. I’ll put on a revolver if I’m heading out to go firewood or any place where I might run into a bear or moose. Unfortunately my main 1911 that I carry is down right now, and I’ve been packing a Glock 19 and feeling rather under gunned with the 9mm. I decided to try out a revolver as a daily carry for a bit. All of the revolvers I own at the moment have 5 inch jr longer barrels, which makes them not ideal for concealed carry. I also wanted something big bore since I work remote and always have that chance of running into a bear. I ended up buying a S&W 629-6 Deluxe for the daily carry purpose. This particular revolver is a round butt with a 3” barrel. The grips that came with it are absolutely the worst grips I’ve ever used for a big bore revolver. They make it unpleasantly hard to shoot, and it’s the first time I’ve ever had a gun that I stopped shooting mid cylinder full. I’m gonna order some pachmeyers or something of that nature for it.
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Post by Bullshop on Jan 4, 2024 20:28:55 GMT -7
That is a good carry gun for self defense from anything. I do have some trepidation about the 3" barrel. After just reading from the book Gary sent me that Elmer Keith felt that barrels shorter than 4" had the potential to mutilate bullets at the muzzle due to still high pressure at the bullet base while the bullet is unconfined outside the barrel. Reading the book by Franklin Mann he confirmed and proved it beyond doubt that bullet bases were indeed being deformed when barrels shorter than 4" were used. Dr. Mann even fired bullets from a revolver without any barrel at all and the recovered bullets were fully expanded from the base forward.
Now to be fair we must qualify as to bullet hardness then compared to bullet hardness now. Both Dr. Mann and Elmer Keith were of course shooting fairly soft cast bullets. I do not recall the alloy used in the Mann trials but Elmer was often quite clear that for his 44 mag alloy he preferred 16 to 1 lead to tin alloy which on the Lyman chart rates a BHN-11. At BHN-11 its easy to scratch with a finger nail. At BHN-20 its very hard to make a mark with a finger nail and at BHN-24 its like trying to mark glass.
As for jacketed bullets I have little experience but from what I have I know that some have very thin jackets with pure lead cores. I have no data on how such bullets will react to such testing so don't know what to think. They are probably somehere in between soft cast and very hard cast.
If I were to cast for that gun I wouldn't use any alloy under BHN-20 and I would size bullets to exact cylinder throat diameter. If your shooting factory jacketed bullet ammo you may never have any issues but if you do I bet you will find that the ammo with the hardest bullets with thickest jacket material is what will shoot the best.
I am very interested to know what you shoot in it and how well it performs.
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Post by Junior on Jan 4, 2024 21:51:43 GMT -7
So far the only ammo I have fired from it was 240gn Hornady XTPs. I put the fist 3 rounds touching at about 10 yards and then adjusted the sights to hit where I wanted and called it quits because it was so unpleasant to shoot. I would pull the grips off of one of my other 44s, but all of the other smiths I have are square butt. Once I get some better grips on this gun, I’ll do some more thorough accuracy testing with it.
The grips on it are quit thick in the front and initially feel quite good in the hand, however, they taper off ytowarss the back of the from frame and are paper thin at the back, and that means the gun just absolutely hammers the web of the hand while firing.
As far as loads, I like the option of being able to run full bore though this gun, but I will probably mostly keep it loading with lighter lights, say a 250 at at 1000-1100. Should still be suitable for anything I need to handle up here. If I want to push harder then that, I can grab my 5” model 29-5 or my redhawk.
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Post by missionary on Jan 4, 2024 23:29:08 GMT -7
First time I ran into "flared bases" was with a .58 ML. Shooting HB Minis that were not going where the rifle was pointed. Then read an article about to heavy a charge of 2F and / or to thin a bullet skirt. 55 grains of 2F Goex solved the issue & not 65 grains. But also increased the skirt diameter so back to 65 grains which was where the sights were set to. Sure is something to be thinking about and remembering. I still like the idea of a 5 shot big bore for carry. May yet buy a model 69 and shoot 44 Special +P loads.
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Post by Junior on Jan 5, 2024 0:00:38 GMT -7
I had a Taurus Tracker which was a 5 shot L frame sized 44 magnum with 2” barrel. It was quite nice to carry and shot much easier than this 6 shot model 629, but that is all because of the terrible grip design on this one. I thought about getting a model 69 combat magnum this go around, but actually got this one cheaper than I could have gotten the L frame for.
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Post by missionary on Jan 5, 2024 5:28:39 GMT -7
We have a 95% model 29 4" sitting in a box wrapped in 30 weight and wax paper. But it is just to big for my 135 pound body to carry about for CC. 5 shots are very nice. I should have bought 10 of the 696 44 Special when S&W had them on production. But good old hindsight. And it turns out they tend to be fragile if heavy 44 Special loads get used. But that 69 with a 2.34" barrel does look like it would never get stressed over some 44 Special +p usage. Sooner or later good used ones will start moving into the sale counters.
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Post by grasshopper on Jan 6, 2024 22:30:37 GMT -7
As far as your present geographic location I would recommend a S&W 29-2 4” or earlier if you can locate one. I don’t think it impossible because I would imagine one of the largest number of model 29s are up where you are anyway. In 4 years of being outdoors in AK in all conditions I tried a number of revolvers for daily carry and defense of students we were training. I tried everything from a early Bowen 500 Linebaugh I got from ur pop, a Freedom Arms 6” 454 that was an awful disappointment. The best overall packing revolver I found was the S&W model 29 4” and mostly carried it in a Darkhorse leather rig that placed the pistol just below my Zyphoid process. The rig has a shell holder to accommodate another 6 rounds for quick access if needed or a speed loader can be used if preferred. This set up allowed me to carry my ruck use an ice ax, treat injuries, etc. it’s also comfortable and easily accessible while driving a truck, snow machine etc. I used a Keith 250gr BH12 maybe I forget but it gave excellent accuracy and terminal performance as everything I shot with that load was DRT. Your mileage may vary but that’s my 4 years of packing daily experience. Maybe it might work for you JR, best of luck!
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Post by Junior on Jan 7, 2024 3:51:59 GMT -7
I have a 5” model 29-5 that is a very early unmarked DX hunter model. It has the full lug barrel and inflicted cylinder and may be the most accurate gun I own period, but by far the most accurate revolver I have ever owned. That gun almost shoots itself. I have carried both that and a 5.5” redhawk up here, but they are a bit hard to conceal, and with my job I can NOT have the gun in sight in any form since we are not supposed to have them, but I’ll be damned if I’m gonna work in remote alaska without a side arm.
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Post by grasshopper on Jan 7, 2024 7:38:27 GMT -7
I owned one of the Smith unfluted cylinder 44mags, called some type of hunter when they were pretty much pre preduction guns and I didn’t like it at all. Maybe they have been refined since forever ago. Like I said what I spoke of was just my experience. Right before I left up there, cerekote type coatings were just starting and I had that 4” coated in a diracoat product and it performed as described. The chest rig I spoke about is actually extremely concealable believe it or not. Even with an N frame since majority of the time you will have some type of polar fleece pullover on you can reach ur iron pretty quick if need be. I may be inept but I have never been good at all shooting accurately with a pistol that has less than a 4” barrel. Maybe the sight radius is just too dang short for my eyes. Like you I’m sure though I lost count how many full power 44mag loads I fired in my youth, like 44special much more now! Anyway you will probably just have to experiment and figure what suits you best for your daily requirements. It’s fun anyway.
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Post by grasshopper on Jan 7, 2024 7:39:24 GMT -7
Oh, that unfluted 44 I had was also stainless
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Post by Junior on Jan 9, 2024 3:59:21 GMT -7
Got a chance to shoot the model 629 some more today with some lighter loads pushing a 240gn SWC at 1150. It’s not too bad to shoot with those loads and these grips, but still not very pleasant. I ordered some pachmyers for it. I was disappointed to see that pachmyers is pretty much the same as everyone else now with finger grooves on most of their grips. I do not understand grip makers obsession with putting finger grooves on everything. anyway. I also bought another revolver today for a little more discreet carry, a model 60-14. I was really hoping the find a snub nosed j frame with adjustable sights since I believe all revolvers should have adjustable sights, but no such luck. The 2” 357 might actually have the best single action trigger I’ve ever felt on a J frame. I guess I’m gonna need to buy a 2.5” model 686 now to complete my collection of smith and Wesson snubs.
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Post by missionary on Jan 9, 2024 5:13:30 GMT -7
I like the looks of that 629. But I still think a 5 shot will fit my little body much better.
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Post by shootist---Gary on Jan 9, 2024 13:06:40 GMT -7
Michael, you just need to eat more, to bulk up more for those weapons with heavy recoil. Wish I could give you some of my 235 pounds.
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Post by missionary on Jan 9, 2024 13:21:59 GMT -7
With the cost of food up there and everything (clothes) I think I will wait. Plus I do not think my knees would like any more bulk to haul about. Limit your total sugar intake to 1 teaspoon a day and watch what happens. Recoil is not my issue... 475 Linebaugh and 454 Casulls are in our house.... It is a weight of the 6 shots to pack about. Chest rigs work well for me but do not conceal well in warm weather. A 5 shot much nicer. Especially the 5 shot Titaniums. 41 mag, 44 Special and 45 Colt are very nice carry. The Ruger GP100 5 shot in 44 Special is a way to heavy a brute. We have one which is fine in a regular holster or chest rig but CC ... not me.
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Post by Junior on Jan 9, 2024 16:42:27 GMT -7
The problem with the 5 shot model 69 is it comes with a 2” or a 4” barrel. 2” is too short in my opinion for 44 magnum. It’s fine for 44 special, but you just lose too much with the magnums and the muzzle blast/fire ball is rather spicy.
The 4” is good, but harder to conceal.
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Post by shootist---Gary on Jan 9, 2024 18:19:21 GMT -7
Have you shot the Bisley .38-40 yet?
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Post by Junior on Jan 9, 2024 20:21:01 GMT -7
I do not own a bisley or a 44/40
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Post by shootist---Gary on Jan 9, 2024 20:58:07 GMT -7
Sorry Jr. I meant it for Mike, Missionary, as he purchased my old Colt Bisley .38-40 a while back.
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Post by missionary on Jan 10, 2024 0:19:17 GMT -7
No I have not. When we were north this last time I did not even get to the local range. Once we knew we had to return to Peru it changed everything for us. But it was all for the best.
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Post by Junior on Jan 16, 2024 13:04:48 GMT -7
Well I swapped the grips out to the pachmayer Diamond Pro grips and that tamed it right down. I also put the same grips on my model 60, but may not leave them on that one because of them being fatter. And not great for pocket carry.
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Post by Junior on Jan 17, 2024 9:49:50 GMT -7
Man these grips made a huge difference on this gun. I’ve probably shot it more in the last 2 days than I have since I got it, and no issues with it hurting my hands. shoots pretty darn good for a snubby too.
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Post by missionary on Jan 17, 2024 9:55:07 GMT -7
Ya have to like a plan that works out. So now was that a 50 or 100 yard group ? Well I had to look those grips up... May try a set on our Ruger GP100 44 Special.
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Post by Junior on Jan 17, 2024 11:03:06 GMT -7
No where close to that far. It’s 15 yards from the deck to the target out the front door. I was standing jsut off the deck so it was probably about 12 yards. I no longer shoot the big guns off the deck after firing a 44 mag off the deck a couple winters ago and having the entires snow laid on the roof go down the back of my neck.
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Post by missionary on Jan 18, 2024 9:29:14 GMT -7
That would sure get your attention. Had a tree do that to me once while out in the Michigan woods.
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Post by Junior on Jan 18, 2024 15:26:13 GMT -7
I guess the thing to do now is settle on a load. Currently I’ve carrying the 44 mag on my left hip in a Simply Rugged Sourdough holster and then I have one of their 2x2x2 ammo pounces I keep on my belt which gives me a reload for the 44 readily available.
I’ve got it loaded up with 300gn Hornady XTPs but I’m not sure if that heavy of a load is the best choice for a revolver that’s used defensively against 2 legged critters with all the lawyer bullcrap these days.
Thinking about swapping to the 225gn Barnes XTB but need to do some more testing with those bullets.
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Post by missionary on Jan 18, 2024 16:59:03 GMT -7
Most any 44 slug at over 950 fps is going to be a show stopper as you sort things out. We are very happy with heavy for caliber WC's cast from range scrap and moving at anywhere from 800fps - 950fps depending on how heavy for caliber they are. Multiple hits are going to be employed as ammo is cheap.
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Post by Junior on Jan 19, 2024 5:42:41 GMT -7
I need to find a happy medium. I don’t want too much energy for the 2 legged vermin if that need ever arises, but also need enough energy to roll a bear or a moose.
I’m thinking a 255gn Keith at about 1100-1150 would be about right.
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Post by Bullshop on Jan 19, 2024 8:43:28 GMT -7
When we lived on Kuyu Island before you were born Jr. I had to kill a bear at work in my strip. The 44 mag did a clean job of keeping the bear off me. The load was Elmers 44 mag load with his 255 grain bullet and 22 grain of 2400. I didnt have a chrono at the time but I think Elmer figured it to give about 1250 fps.
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Post by missionary on Jan 19, 2024 9:35:04 GMT -7
Howdy Dan... good to read your jabbings again. Figured you were busy tending the wood burners... 255 grains at 1250 is right in there with 38-55 255 grains at muzzle with a 40-1 slug. I trust you had more than 10 feet between you and those teeth and claws.
JR. You could always carry the 1st round up for 2 legged types and all the rest harder lead for bear penetration. On our 53 ton 105mm armed beast we carried an all purpose round in the tube for the 1st shot. Then could easily load the deep penetrators on the 2nd round which would have been moving out just 8 seconds later. Revolver with be 8x that fast. But if a 4 legged monster is more likely then I would not worry about slapping a couple into a 2 legged pest. I have never had bears to think on. Cougars were real the last 10 years but they are no more tough than corn crunchers or two stepping problems.
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Post by shootist---Gary on Jan 19, 2024 12:57:18 GMT -7
Mike, I thought that you were retired in Arizona. What happened? Your many friends in Peru missed you too much?
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